Tracie Harris & Jen Peeples – Abortion Legislation Discussion | Atheist Experience 23.21

Posted By on May 22, 2019



yeah whoo so we don't really have any special announcements today but you have a topic yeah I wanted to talk about some of these abortion restrictions that are passing funtimes oh yeah yeah very fun times that you and I are not autonomous human beings apparently yeah no they're the three states I wanted to talk about briefly Georgia it's a fetal heartbeat law that just passed which basically means that abortion is only legal up to about six weeks so about the time a woman finds out she's pregnant she can no longer have an abortion there are exceptions in the Georgia law for cases of rape or incest but only if the victim has filed an official police report which is problematic because a lot of rapes are never reported for lots of reasons in the Georgia law abortion is punishable by up to 10 years in prison but it's unclear who'd be charged whether it be the woman the doctor or both so that's a pretty that's actually it's surreal it is that is some people have pointed out the punishment for having an abortion after being raped in these states is actually more than a rapist would get assuming you could get a conviction for it in Alabama the six week abortion ban kicks in so it's it's basically you can get an abortion up to six weeks or up until the point you find out you're pregnant so yes and that is literally what the guy said and it was a man saying this that a woman can of course have any procedure she wants up until she knows she's pregnant protip dude women don't go around having pre-emptive abortions you know there's no such thing there are no exceptions for rape or incest and in Alabama this is a Class A felony it's punishable by up to 99 years in prison for the doctor yeah and I just want to say like I heard somebody trying to say that it was being spun as oh he's talking about things like Plan B but I just want I mean go look at the clip yourself because it's it's my recollection was exactly what you said that he's just like no no no none of these you know none of the abortion options are being withheld from women right up until the time they know they're pregnant mm-hm and I'm just I mean it didn't sound to me like he was talking about a single option or you know what I mean right was like oh we're not we're not stopping women from doing anything on the abortion front up until they know they're pregnant it's like I don't even I don't know what that means yeah I mean I know what it means but it makes no sense so yeah it's really bizarre and like I said no exceptions for rape or incest so basically as soon as you know you're pregnant you can no longer have an abortion in Alabama and as many people have pointed out this up to 99 years in prison that's far more than a rapist would get for raping and impregnating a woman yeah so it's basically open season on women Aaron Missouri just passed an 8 week abortion ban which has provisions because it's going to get challenged and so they've got a heartbeat rule in there so just for people that that are confused about this what's being called a heartbeat is actually electrical activity from a primitive structure that will become a heart at some point it's not an actual beating heart okay it is detectable electrical activity but but you know people have this idea that it's this teeny tiny little baby in there you know with all its fingers and toes and stuff like that and that's what people are getting emotionally connected to that's not what a fetus looks like at six weeks it's yeah I mean it's just the other thing is I remember seeing one of the legislators thing like you know and this is this is how we gauge you know like protecting life and whatnot and I was like no it's not it's brain activity yeah and they don't don't just for a heartbeat I mean if you have like some kind of autonomic nervous system stuff going on but there's not brain activity in other parts of your brain where you're gonna come back and actually you know ever be aware right generally they're just like hey this person is gone yeah and and this whole fetal pain thing there's actually no evidence that a fetus feels pain until I think the earliest point at which those structures even exist that could transmit pain signals they're like 28 weeks some people say 30 or even 32 weeks is the earliest so but I did I mean I saw somebody stand up on a town hall it was like a Pennsylvanian Town Hall and she was just like I want to you know deal with this with facts and she said you know the heartbeat is it's X weeks and the feels painted X weeks and and it's you know a human and I just thought okay this you know this guy over here is a human being he's got a heartbeat he feels pain can you use your body without your consent really that cool yeah I it's just weird it's like yeah they're facts but maybe you use relevant facts well and that that actually brings up something I wanted to talk about because there's actually relevant case law in this this is a case from 1978 it actually went to court okay so in this case a guy named Robert McFaul was 39 years old was diagnosed with a rare form of blood cancer called aplastic anemia in in order to survive he needed a bone marrow transplant and so he went to his siblings they tested all the siblings none of them were a match they finally tested a cousin a guy named David Shemp who was in fact a match is a very good match and anyway after going through the testing and determining that chimp was a match they said hey let's schedule this bone-marrow transplant because your cousin Robert McFaul is going to die if he doesn't get this with the transplant he would have a 50 to 60 percent chance of surviving okay Shemp said you know what I don't want to do it and the reason he said he didn't want to do it is because he had a dream in which he he dreamed that he wouldn't ever come out of the bone-marrow donation procedure if he went through with it and he was married and had kids and he didn't want to die and so he refused well this caused like a major rift in the family and after failing to prevail on him to do the donation even after doctors explained that it's virtually painless for the donor you know he's under anesthesia and there's pain relief and everything in it and it it wouldn't hurt him he still refused so the family out of desperation took him to court and they sued him in a court and the judge came back and said you know I find his position morally indefensible but you can't compel the guy to donate you know part of his body to sustain another person's life even if they're going to die without it and so he ruled against McFaul and that ruling came down on I think like late July and McFaul died August 10th of that year so it was you know he doesn't he definitely needed it but this illustrates how it's very well-established in law that you don't require someone to donate any part of their body to someone else even if that person will die without it and that's the situation we're in when it comes to an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy women are being required to allow another human to use their body in order to not die that's that to me is morally indefensible if I don't have the same bodily autonomy at least as a corpse that's pretty gross and that's the situation we're in yeah I remember talking about a procedure that I found it was really strange I think I heard about it on NPR and I looked into it and it was just sort of like this timeframe where they did this procedure which was hooking up a baby to the mother to act as a life support system this is before they had like actual life support systems they could put you on while they did a surgery or whatever and she just acted like the heart pump to you know keep the baby alive and the women needed to consent to this it's like this is the mother this is the baby this is the baby's life and she needed to consent to be hooked out to the baby in order to supply it you know like blood tissue you know use of her organs in order to sustain it through the surgery and you just wonder it's like why did she need to sign a consent form right what's the purpose of the consent form and it's it's because you have to consent to this yes even if it's your own child yes and you know I think you've stated this very eloquently many times is that it's just a fact of biology that if a fetus is removed from its mother's body prior to a certain point in gestation it will die that's just biology and it's unfortunate for the fetus but yeah women didn't get to vote on that people with the uterus didn't get to vote on that right it's like that's how it works and and and for the people to say but surely you don't support abortion right up to the point of birth there is no such thing okay post viability it's called c-section or induction okay and the times when you get to make that choice or you know when you have to make that choice in late term it's not something that women are doing on a whim that oh god I just forgot to get that abortion let me go in and get this late term procedure that by the way involves delivering a stillborn child okay because that's how you get the baby out of your body at that point in gestation so I mean none of this stuff is it's something that women do on a whim are there some people that are irresponsible of course but restricting abortion access is not the way to make people more responsible and if somebody's that irresponsible do you actually them to raise a child I mean come on it's an interesting you know one of the interesting subtext is if you're that by promoting that women can't make responsible decisions about their own bodies what you're actually promoting is that women in no way would be responsible to trust with seats of government yeah right it's like this is a way to undermine women's competency like all the way around it's yeah goes beyond just reproductive choices if I can't if I can't even make health care decisions about myself I have to be told what to do with my body because I just you know I can't figure it out you know I thought I should have a medical procedure what does that say about how do as a society how does that undermine people's confidence in women and their their competency yeah well in another thing I would point out that it's a little bit more ominous but it's this if the state can tell you that you can't have an abortion that same state can tell you that you must have an abortion if they can control that aspect of your life then they have control over the whole thing it's always weird how that works right so somebody was talking about they had somebody I guess that was on social media that was arguing about the whoever is the biological you know sperm donor for this you know a new human being that they should have some say in whether or not like the pregnancy goes forward or not right and I was just like how does that even work right because these things only work in their heads one way right right basically they would say oh I want the guy to be able to step in and stop her from having an abortion think it's right there to have the baby and it's like so but what if he steps in and says I don't want a kid so she has to abort yeah I mean you you're not really you can't give somebody that's not giving somebody a say in it that's giving them control of it right exactly you can't well and and there was one guy and I can't remember which state he was from but he basically said that quiet part out loud where he he basically said yeah the woman's just the host she actually needs the man's permit to do whatever she wants to do I'm sure there's no way I saw pro-lifer on one of the networks and they were I guess it was a cable channel doing guess it's no network I don't know maybe they are networks but they were talking about the one young woman the 12 year old that has gotten pregnant via repeated rape and one of the things that the pro-lifers said was because the the person that was the host described that situation and she's like well you know this bill has no exception for rape like surely you don't condone you know forcing somebody do you support that part of the bill that you know would would require this this person this twelve-year-old carry to term and the guy said well you're talking about an innocent child they're in the womb yeah and I've just kind of I mean it floored me yeah because I thought he's talking about this child and of course there should be you know but no yeah she's so that you know the the person doing the interview did call that out and say you know the twelve-year-old is an innocent child to you yeah yeah yeah you know let's let's hand waive that but yeah yeah it was it's just something else I don't know well and I guess I'd like to at least he's consistent right yeah but I'd like to wrap this segment up by pointing out that some of the people that voted against the Alabama bill introduced legislation that would require the state to pay for the medical expenses of any child that the state forced a woman to have under this law pay for all of the health care and medical expenses of any child born under this law yeah until the child was at least three years old and that was voted down like 23 to eat or something like that yeah it's not about it's not about concern for yeah the life of a child yeah so they absolutely do not care about punishment man yeah and that's what it is all of it is geared toward making sure that you do have accidents and that you are supremely punished for them well yeah because if you wanted to reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies and therefore reduce the need for abortion you would do at Colorado did which is make long-term birth control free and easily accessible to especially to teenage women but to really to any woman who needed it it's just a don't have sex and if you do have sex you need to pay for it yeah and of course now they're making a child into a punishment that a woman has imposed on her it's a little we're having sex yes it's a blessing but it's a perm yeah and with that

Posted by Lewis Heart

This article has 21 comments

  1. It's insane how laws can regulate what woman can do her own life decisions. Republicans live ideologically in the 1700s.

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  2. According to the new Georgia law a woman can be prosecuted for a miscarriage that was caused by their actions "intentional or not". So a stunt woman who doesn't know she is pregnant has a miscarriage. Is she investigated for murder? I have a friend who had one stillbirth and six miscarriages. Would she have been investigated as a serial killer if they had happened under this law?

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  3. Nobody ever mentions that God is Pro-choice! What does God hate more than anything? Taking away a person's free choice. The proof of that is that He will not interfere with anyone from doing anything. GOD IS PRO-CHOICE!

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  4. From an outside point of view from uk. These 'conservative' republicans that support these anti abortion laws, are the same people who are opposed to social welfare, universal healthcare and environmental protections, whilst also being very much 'for,' unregulated gun ownership, strict custodial sentencing and the death penalty.

    So, to them, a human life is sacred, right up to the moment you're born. Then – fuck you, you're on your own!

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  5. I had this conversation with my parents today. My sister got a job as a nurse at planned parenthood and my mom is in full disagreement about it. I pointed out to her exactly what Jen talked about that unfortunately there are irresponsible people that might not deserve such a privilege, but there are people that do need it. I also tried pointing out that this type of privilege also helps void out unnecessary situations. Unfortunately she didn’t budge due to her emotional attachment that it’s a child in the womb, zygote or no zygote, point of conception or none, biology or no biology 🤦‍♂️ kind of happy she isn’t allowed to vote 🤷‍♂️

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  6. While this is certainly an emotional issue this is off topic. One reason I lost interest in the ACA, they seem to be drifting away from the central topic. Probably because no knowledgeable theist has called in a long time. All the ACA gets now are the half wits.

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  7. In prehistoric (aka 'biblical') times, if a woman was raped, she would be forced to marry her rapist. Well, it's 2019 – we've come a long way !!
    Notably, in Alabama, Georgia etc., it's still 850 BC.

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  8. Who causes spontaneous abortions? If god is in control then why does he allow spontaneous abortions. God creates life. And death.

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  9. So Christians are now going to force raped and molested children into making children of thier own… like good all Christian's "sharia law".

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  10. Wow… first, the Stephen Woodford situation, which clearly demonstrates none of you truly care about rational thinking nor SCIENCE whatsoever and now this. You mention that pro lifers should use relevant facts/examples and both of you proceed to using non relevant facts or examples. You keep mentioning this idea about men and that men shouldn’t really be deciding these things when Matt already mentioned that’s an argument he doesn’t agree with. Lastly, I hope both of you realize that more women are more likely to be AGAINST abortion than men.

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  11. Christian's need to read the parts about Jesus saying not to be worldly and not concern yourselves with what the world does. And the part about there is not a law created by man without God's will, approval and hand in it. They go against their own god. Smh

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  12. Unborn babies just love abortion supporters, unborn babies love abortion supporters more than Republicans and pro life promoters right?

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  13. This was a ridicule comparison! There is a vast difference between being responsible for using your body to care for a fetus that you and your partner had consensual sex and put there and having to give up body parts to a separate human being that you had no part in there misfortune. I am a huge supporter of this channel and content but there is some serious confermation bias here.

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  14. Mitch McConnell has made it his goal to pack federal courts with conservative judges, and has been doing just that for many many years. People got upset at Kavanaugh becoming a Justice, but there are a ton more con judges out there, and they will have a LONG lasting effect on our rights for decades to come.

    The pro slavery anti-abortionists have been moving the courts to the right, when historically courts have been the only chance for minorities to get any legal protection. I see more anti-gay, anti-black and anti-latin laws being declared "constitutional" by the right wing judges.

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  15. Listening to this conversation I started wondering if there is a correlation between States with the toughest laws on abortion and States with poor or no sex education programs?
    Is that just my perception or are ignorant fathers condemning the next generation to ignorance?

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  16. I had an abortion over 30 years ago during medical school. I’ve never wanted kids, and now I’m happily successful, and happily childless. To each their own. If you want kids go for it; if you’re against abortion, don’t have one.
    I’m not a GYN, but these theocratic laws are why I won’t work for religious hospitals or in the Bible Belt.

    Reply

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