Nate Phelps, Son of God Hates Fags Westboro Baptist Church, Reveals All Part 1 of 2

Posted By on August 8, 2019

David Pakman: OK, we’re speaking with Nate
Phelps, who is the estranged son of Fred Phelps, of course of Westboro Baptist Church fame.
Nate, thanks for joining us today. Nate Phelps: My pleasure, Dave. David: So give us the background. I mean,
I’m fascinated to be walked through this. You were born in Topeka, Kansas where the
Westboro Baptist Church is? Phelps: Yeah, I was born in ’58 there. I was
the sixth child of what eventually became 13. David: And so you are Shirley Phelps-Roper’s
brother? Phelps: Yes. She actually was born on Halloween
the year before I was born. David: So you have the same… but you don’t
have the same birthday. Phelps: No, I was actually born in November. David: So give me your earliest memories of
what it was like. I mean, is there an indoctrination that begins very young? Just, I can’t even
imagine what it was like to be in that situation. Phelps: Well, yeah, I mean, I don’t… I don’t
know that that’s how my father would’ve characterized it, but from the time we were born, literally,
you know, when the child came home from the hospital, they were there in the pew on Sunday
morning. My father scoffed at the idea of Sunday school because he thought that the
children should be hearing the word of God from their earliest moments, so we were in
the church twice on every Sunday listening to our father’s idea of what the Bible taught
about God and man’s condition and that type of thing, so that was pounded into us from
the very beginning of our lives. David: So how early on does the very direct
anti-gay rhetoric start? Phelps: As early as I can remember. He considered
homosexuality to be a unique sin against God because he saw a passage in, I think in Romans
about God giving them up to their vile affections, as evidence that this was a unique sin that
you couldn’t return from, that, you know, God gave you away, that you can’t turn back
and be saved. So homosexuality was considered particularly evil in his eyes. David: Now, as a kid, I’m guessing you have
no point of reference to evaluate the statements that you’re being told, so what happened…
Well, first of all, when you first were exposed to that type of thing, did you just believe
it? You thought that that was the truth? Phelps: Oh, absolutely. I mean, just like
you said, what choice do you have? A child gets their idea, their notions of the world,
from their caregivers, in this case, from our father. And you know, as you grow older,
then of course you start seeing and hearing ideas that are contradictory or in violation
of what you’ve been taught, but especially in those early years, and especially because
of the way my father taught us, that there was, yeah, you’ll go out there in the world
and you’ll hear these other ideas, but they’re evil, they’re of the Devil. And so, you know,
that’s just how we incorporated that information in. We just expected that the rest of the
world was evil. David: So it was a calculated preemptive warning,
‘You’re going to hear other things, but just be aware that this is the right thing.’ Phelps: Yeah. And that… you know, I can’t
say whether that’s consistent with all religions, but I’ll tell you, that was a key, crucial
component of what… of the process my father put us through, because, you know, I mean,
even into adulthood, you’re constantly questioning yourself when you’re reading other ideas or
considering other ideas whether your motive is pure, whether it’s appropriate to even
be asking these kind of questions. David: And how… can you put a number on
how old you were when you first just heard the term “God hates fags” used? I mean, can
you even remember? Phelps: Well, I don’t know that he used that
specific term. That’s kind of become their catchphrase, but… David: Yeah. Phelps: You know, I typically, when I think
about my, you know, where I was, what age I was when I started asking legitimate questions,
I’d say I was problem seven to eight years old. David: So you were seven or eight and you
started to question what you were being taught? Phelps: Yeah. I mean, in a very juvenile sense,
but you know, I mean, he would suggest that, you know, some event or some sequence of events
or some idea that suggested that God’s hand was involved in some affair on the Earth,
and I would say to myself, “Well, why can’t it just be that it’s the way it is?” you know?
That we don’t have to add this additional component into this. So those kind of questions
were there. Perhaps my motive at that time was fear, I don’t know, you know, because
the image we had of God was pretty frightening. David: So originally it sounds like it wasn’t
the anti-gay homosexuals are behind everything type of thing that you were questioning, it
was just more generally God and religion. Phelps: That’s right. And another big component
of it was that, you know, you grow up with this idea that we are a unique people, that
we stand out among all men on the Earth, and yet I saw my father’s behavior and his attitudes
and his words and his actions towards other humans, and it was, you know, on the one hand,
you would expect almost this holiness or this otherworldliness in us because, I mean, think
about that claim, right? And instead, we were, you know, we were just base, as far as, you
know, just being cruel and unkind and hateful towards other humans. So that was another
strong motivator for me to ask questions. How is this possible that we are this unique
people on the Earth but we’re behaving this way? David: So at this point, were the public protests
and picketing of funerals and that type of thing, was that going on at this point? I
mean, this was some years ago. Phelps: Yeah, no, no. This was years before
they actually started this campaign. This campaign started in ’91. David: Right. Phelps: But the same components, the same
behavior, the same attitudes. My father was constantly in a battle with someone in his
world. He was fighting judges, he was fighting lawyers, he was fighting members of my family,
he was fighting neighbors. That was who he was, and he just couched it or justified it
or explained it in terms of his relationship with God and that the world was at enmity
with God. David: So this makes me think kind of of,
you know, nature versus nurture. Something happened within you that did not happen within
Shirley, for example, or other siblings, which made you question and not just accept at face
value what you were told. Do you… what do you think of that? I mean, is it something
genetic? Was there something you were exposed to that you weren’t? Where do you see that? Phelps: Yeah, that question ultimately in
my mind is impossible to answer with absolute clarity. David: Sure. Phelps: I think that… I think it’s a little
bit of both. I think that there’s this notion, I don’t know if I articulate it well, but
there’s this notion of kind of a feedback loop that as we start getting information
about our world and who we are and how we fit into it, then we take that in and then
we start viewing the world within that context. So very early on, as I started asking these
questions to myself, understand clearly, you don’t ask these questions of our father, because
it’s just not acceptable. David: Right. Phelps: But as I started asking these questions,
then it came out as a, I don’t know, passive-aggressive defiance of my father’s authority or his position.
So he and I became, you know, we were at odds fairly early on in my life. So that kind of
feeds the whole process as well. So by the time I’m 16, 17 years old, I’m convinced that
I have no business there, that I don’t belong in that situation. David: So, and… so describe, walk me through,
how do you leave? Do you talk to Fred Phelps and say, “I’m leaving,” or how does it all
happen? What’s your first step? Phelps: Oh, yeah. My older brother Mark had
left when I was… I think I was 16 years old, maybe still 15, but sometime in that
period of my life, he had made the decision to leave. And so we observed that. This was
the first one who left, and in spite of my father’s intense efforts to draw him back
in, he stayed gone. So then, of course, Mark became the topic of many of my father’s sermons,
and he became the example of what would happen to the rest of us if we left. So it became very clear pretty quickly that
if I intended to follow suit that I had to be very careful not to let… not only not
to let my father know, but not to let anybody in my family know, because there was this
attitude that we grew up with that, you know, we were always searching for favor in our
father’s eyes, so if we found something in the environment that we thought would be important
to him, then we would go running to him and tell him, and then that would… you know,
we would throw any of our siblings under the bus in a moment’s notice. So it was important
for me to stay as quiet and private about that decision as possible. David: But eventually, I mean, once you leave,
he knows you have left, right, at that point? Phelps: Yeah. Well, at that point, but see,
he made it clear that once we left that we were ostracized, that, you know, we were,
first of all, we were, the language he used was we were “delivered to Satan for the destruction
of the flesh”. So we now lived under this certainty that God was angry with us and that
he was going to punish us. We didn’t know what form that would take, but we knew it
was going to happen. David: I mean, is that… would you consider
that abusive? Is it abuse for a father to convince his son that if he leaves, if he
takes a certain path, that he is going to be hated by God, essentially? Phelps: Of course, that’s exactly what I believe.
I think that the whole, you know, so much of the message of Christianity, at least his
version of it, is abusive because it suggests… You know, I, when I was eight years old, I
remember terrified sitting in the pew and trying to imagine an eternity burning in Hell
and was reduced to tears, you know, it’s just stark terror in the mind of an eight-year-old
child. So all of those components were, in my opinion, very abusive. But I don’t know
necessarily that it’s fair to say that my father deliberately abused his children. He
believes this stuff. David: Right. Interesting. So how old were
you when you finally did leave? Phelps: Well, I left on the night of my 18th
birthday. I had decided that I was going to do it, so I started making plans and I bought
an old, gosh, this thing was a year younger than God, it was a Rambler Classic. And it
barely ran, and I bought it, and I hid it up the street so no one knew that I owned
it, and then as my birthday approached, I started packing my belongings a little bit
at a time and hiding them in the garage. So on the night of my 18th birthday, I, once
everybody was asleep, I went out, got the car, and backed it into the driveway and loaded
all my stuff up, and then stood down in the living room and waited for the clock to hit
midnight. And then I left. David: Why did you wait, just so it was completely
legal you waited for midnight? Is that what it was? Phelps: Yeah, because my older sister, Catherine,
had tried to leave when she was 17, and so once again, the younger children were able
to observe my father literally forcing her back physically. David: Wow. Phelps: And she went through about three or
four months of just brutal physical abuse as he tried to beat her into submission. Transcript provided by Alex Wickersham. For
transcription, translation, captions, and subtitles, contact Alex at [email protected]

Posted by Lewis Heart

This article has 100 comments

  1. Wow.
    That is… just an absolutely sad and horrible story. I sure hope Nate was able to adjust after mental trauma like that.

  2. What's the saying? "Out of 450 species of animals on the planet, all of them express same-sex attractions but only one species expresses homophobia!! Guess which species: HUMANS"

  3. Look I don't agree with men loving men but that's their business if they want to go to hell that's their business and I don't associate with or would associate with them If people went gay 100 years ago the human would be extinct. Being Gay is NOT OK.

  4. the kid from 3rd rock from the son…and he just did a movie about having cancer…yeah i see what your saying..but i cant remember his name.

  5. his name is Joseph Gordon levitt he played adam on the movie called 50/50 i googled it just for you….and im not gonna lie it was driving me crazy two .

  6. Did anyone else get an advertisement for Biola University offering an education for Christ? They might want to move their advertisement to a location that doesn't describe religion as an abusive scam.

  7. God doesn't hate gays, He just considers homosexuality a sin. "Hate the sin, love the sinner," as Paul remotely says. Eve disobeyed God and heralded the approach of sin, and homosexuality was just a small (albeit important) part of the curse.

    I have a very close friend who is bisexual. A friend of mine, a fellow Christian, treats her as equally as any other human, despite her belief. So, just because she is a sinner, it doesn't necessarily mean we hate her.

  8. They replied that "God made gays just to destroy them to show an example of his power and wrath." Some one said that already to them and they had a answer. God makes gays just to destroy them. lol How do people fall for this shit?

  9. No man nor woman may enter the gates of heaven without the salvation of Christ embroidered within their heart.. He died on the cross as a perfect sacrifice, since the only payment for sin back then was death (which is why they made animal sacrifices), which was the day that all mankind was saved by His blood. I should have been in His place, suffering on that cross, because I am a sinner. I have done things that are wrong. But I'm saved because our perfect Maker died for us.

  10. Know that I am not forcing you to follow my beliefs, nor am I scolding you harshly for your opinions. I am merely stating the facts I believe in. Also be aware that I, my dear friend, am a realist, and I know when something doesn't make sense. The theories of evolution and the Big Bang stopped making sense to me a long time ago. If you wish, I can tell you why, but preferably over PMing. No need to take up the comment section with our friendly debate.

  11. Sorry, changed my mind. I'd rather talk about it publicly. If I'm going to be challenged, I might as well participate for the whole world to see. Anyways, I'd enjoy talking about the Truth.

    A pencil has a designer, a creator, correct? It didn't just pop into existence randomly through a fusion of graphite, wood, metal, and rubber; that's absurdly impossible. So if something as simple as a pencil requires a creator, what about something as complex as the divine universe? Even just Earth?

  12. That would be because a pencil is unable to genetically alter itself throughout time, where as living beings can.

  13. If anything, Josh, the argument of God just "poofing" us here in a "Bewitched" type fashion is absolutely ridiculous. I can see physical evidence of evolution, but have yet to see a white bearded man flying on Nimbus.

  14. I fail to see the difference (physically) between a Greek of 150 BC, as depicted in their infamous marble statues, and a British folk from 2013. They both look very similar to me, except one maybe dresses differently than the other (which is technically not genetically). I mean, *pfft*, maybe "a million years" hasn't passed since "neanderthals evolved," but you'd think there would be at least a small difference between the two, right? That is, if what your saying is true.

  15. He didn't "poof" us here. He created us, made with His hands, like a potter shapes clay. Just because we can't see His hands working doesn't necessarily mean they aren't there. Besides, the definition of creating something is to merely bring it into existence, in one way or another. God brought us into existence, using the resources He had (aka, the whole universe) and the parts of Him (including His abilities for kindness, love, patience, grace, etc.).

    Oh, and it's just Josiah, not Josh.

  16. Another thing: God doesn't fly around on clouds. The typical expression is that just because someone can't be seen, it doesn't mean they aren't there. It just means they are either not there (which is impossible for God) or we are incapable of seeing them (which is probable).

    Oh, and I would enjoy it if you could provide the physical evidence you speak of, because I truly have been searching high and low, yet it's nowhere to be seen!

    So, carry on, then!

  17. okay i need someone from America to answer this for me. isn't it illegal to beat your children ? as i understand from nate that his dad was beating the living shit out of his own child to make sure she submit to the Word of lunacy.

  18. Yes of course it's illegal. But someone can't be arrested unless there is proof or the victim comes forth. If all it took was an accusation, a stranger on the street could point at you and have you arrested for nothing.

  19. really? can you give me verse? sounds interesting right now I disagree but I don't know sooo whatever. Oh or do you mean the flesh father who was married to mary

  20. No, it's not. It's okay to spank your kids with an open palm on the butt, or legs(And only a certain number of times), but not closed fist in the chest, face, etc. And not to submit to anything, just as discipline.

  21. discipline? I would be scared of my dad/mom if they hit me.. I wouldn't see it as discipline and it would def not give me respect towards them. If they did something I mean it's wrong, would it be okay for me to hit them then?

  22. Hey, hey, hey! D:
    First of all, I was only telling him the law, a fact. It's not like their BEATING their kids, like Phelps. Geez.
    Second of all, that's your opinion, not everyone is like that. I was spanked when I was younger and I love my parents to death.
    Third of all, No parent is the same. That's up to them if they want to enforce physical discipline upon you. I personally would rather my kids(When i have some:3) eat like a vegetable that they don't like, or take what they DO like away.

  23. How would you feel if someone made you eat something you don't like? are peoples brain really that destroyed that they can't find a way to discipline their children without hurting them physically or mentally? I don't even know why I ask the question because I already know the answer. To take away a toy on the other hand is okay. The child won't suffer because of it.

    I get where you're coming from, but physical abuse is NOT okay even if it's "just" a little spank on the butt.

  24. I agree that physical "punishment" isn't necessary, but no one becomes mentally damaged because of a spanking on the butt. Please, send me some cases were that is the case. Where someone was spanked as discipline and ended up to hate their parents. No, it is not a necessary discipline, compared to other alternatives, but it works.
    Also, the vegetable thing, it can only be healthy for them anyway.
    I respect your opinion, but what if you have nothing of value to take from them? Say you're poor?

  25. I never said it did, even tho it might have happened.. but if you raise your children right they will respect you without you having to spank your children. I told my mom and dad very clearly as a 7 year old that if they hit me, I were allowed to hit them too and that I would hit them back. (I can't remember why we were talking about it tho.)

    True, but in that case you should "force" them to eat something they like but don't want to eat.

    If you're poor you take away other things.. like… ->

  26. like the opportunity to be out with friends. You can make them do more chords etc.. make their life boring for a bit :p

    My older brother did something wrong when he was 8 or something and they took away all the things in his room except his bed.. he did respond with moving the bed out of his room because as he said "the bed isn't mine either", but when it was time to sleep he wanted it back and said sorry and never did the same wrong thing again.

  27. In my house hold, chores is an everyday thing and theirs rarely anything to ever clean. And what if they're poor, have nothing of value to them and have no friends because they live in the middle of no where? What then punishment can you do to teach them? In the end, if you have nothing of value and a disobedient kid, it boils down to the old ways. but i agree, if you raise them right in the first place, you will most likely not have that problem.

  28. God is also against sex before marriage, contraception, abortion, lying, hating another person, being arrogant, people who judge. So who are ye as sinners to judge other sinners. All sin is seen the same in Gods eyes. So people need to stop using the bible for the ignorance and practice what they preach.

  29. Then you find something the child likes to do.. f.ex play football or soccer as english people like to call it.. or american football.. "No soccer for a week". If that doesn't help give them 2 weeks without the thing they like to do + a work out they would NEVER want to do. Tell them to move a fucking big ass tire from the end of the street aaaaaalll the way to the other end/start of the street. Fantasy is a good thing 😀

  30. even if your dad is a drug dealer, criminal nazi or whatever still is your father.
    you can't speak about your father to others… specially the media.
    What kind of son are you Nate? Now i understand why Fred kicked your butt out of the church

  31. The reason why we assume it isn't normal is because there is no other way of reproduction besides straight female to male. Think of it like eating a peanut butter sandwich instead of a PBJ because you don't like jelly. SOMEONE will call you out because they assume it's weird and not right.

  32. Well the only reason it might generate thumbs down is because you are talking absolute and utter nonsense. Your "comment"is mind boggleing ignorant and makes you look foolish .

  33. It's not a fact,It's a ridiculous comment .Even the fact that you had to ask "how is it mind boggling ignorant proves that.

  34. How you can even use the word "genuine " when you come out with nonsense such as "In fact, I believe there is some sort of medical explanation for homosexuality.
    There is no "medical explanation " as I said to you before homosexuality IS NORMAL .
    To reply with " if homosexuality was normal, humankind would've died out a long time ago"
    What an unbelievably stupid thing to say .
    Here's one for you ,,The world is made up of homosexual people AND hetrosexual people..get it???

  35. Ok so the westboro church is a case of taking completely irrational beliefs and using them to further their own agenda while using propaganda of whatever sort they like. Christian churches do that to, just with a different agenda. I don't get why mr. top comment gets praise while this church doesn't. It's the same illogical book their using, with the same bases for their views. It just baffles me.

  36. It's not about church man. It's about the relationship with god. I worship in my own way, in isolation. He's worked miracles for me, and I praise him in private. What's wrong with these people is that they make it seem like a building/organization is the key to getting closer to God. I know you don't care about "Mr. Top Comment"'s ideals and beliefs, but you were looking at the comment totally wrong.

  37. At the very least, he sounds nothing like his hateful sister. I have watched and heard some things said by Shirley, and she is simply hideous. I heard an exchange between her and a minister where she admits to having no theological training, yet she spouts her nonsense on street corners and teaches this hate to her children. Why does no one call cps on that dumb woman and have those kids yanked out from under her loony butt before they are tainted any furthur.

  38. LOL!!!  It really cracked me up to recently learn that the now dead Fred Phelps has a grandson who just "came out of the closet!! LOL! I'll bet ol Fred is just having a fit down there in Hell!!! LMAO!!!

  39. "FRED, HE DEAD
    those are the immortal words of Princess Peussie concerning Phelps and his welps

  40. Was nate the latest one to escape ?, iv noticed that this Drain pratt is good at avoiding any tricky questions, how on earth did these people gain law degrees ??

  41. ok, so if they arent allowed to mix with gays, or enablers, do they manage to find partners, surely if their rules are so rigid, then noone can be trusted, or are we going down the inbreeding route ? 

  42. Nate Phelps is one fat fucking piece of weakling shit. He needs to control his disgusting appetite for fast food and booze

  43. Anyone else think Fred was rejected by some dude and started to hate himself and that person for his feelings… just saying sounds like he would love abit of penis

  44. But seriously,
    why was Fred Phelps so absolutely consumed with homosexuality???
    He was so opposed to anal sex that he thought about it all the time….

    Me thinks thou protest too much, Fred.

    In fact, me thinks that you probably spent a great deal of time imagining muscular young men and inserting a selection of household objects into your rectum.
    TV remotes and the candles from the chapel.
    Carrots, cucumbers, bananas,

    We know the truth about you FRED PHELPS
    You desire rough hard anal sex
    but you never had the guts to admit it.


  46. You know over the last 50 years God has changed his opinion of who he hates so much he said blacks are obsolete farm equipment, the white man Is Satan,and all gays are going to hell,where's the God that loves everyone and hates no one like in the Bible. Where did he go? -_- you can hate but don't use the Bible a book created to make peace in this world to give you a foundation for it.

  47. Nate sounds like a wise and strong man. He made it out and prevailed against all the irrational hatred, and he was much more indoctrinated than anyone outside his family. Good on him.

  48. I was raised in the baptist religion… this kind of lunacy made me leave religion all together! Take your religion and stick it ~ your all fucking crazy!!!!!!!!!!!

  49. what an amazing guy to have found his way out of an abusive hate centred childhood to rationality, love and acceptance. There is hope for humanity if Nate can make it to reason and understanding so can the rest of us. Think don't pray! Love don't hate ! Reason don't have faith. The sad thing is that everything his father believes is actually in the Bible and is what nutters like John Calvin and Jonathan Edwards (Main Stream Christians) used to believe

  50. Bwhaha I shouldn't laugh, but just look at his big pale bloated round squishy face!  Paint it blue & he will be a dead ringer as an Angry Bird!

  51. Hey another good Phelps heres my list:
                         Cole Phelps
                         Nate Phelps……… stillll waiting stilll waiting…. ugh

  52. As soon as a person express 's hate for others, they are no longer a part of a GOd loving system……….homosexuality is not evil, evil is the inability to accept difference……..many years ago these same haters as in this video, would be stating that black people are evil, because they are not white……

  53. I have such respect for Nathan Phelps. He is well-versed, and you can feel his sensitivity and compassion…….and intelligence. I'm glad he listened to his heart and inner-voice, and decided/chose for himself. My hat is off to him. May he live a life of Peace, Love, and Happiness. We all have crazy in our families. Some more extreme than others. But I personally have no room to judge. Being excommunicated is a blessing so one can live their life honestly and authentically.

  54. GOD  doesn't hate anyone ! he hates sin!  he want's everyone to repent and go to HEAVEN!  this man does not know the BIBLE! he has probably never read what  JESUS said!  gays can go to HEAVEN  , but they have to admit they are wrong and repent of that sin!!!

  55. ok, here it is, is the human race even worth saving, she just said that WE ALL SIN, so the human race is doomed in hell, we all sin, so yeah

  56. Many of that clan have left. I personally view Fred Phelps version of Christianity as Satanism. Grandpa Fred there served the other guy. Personally, I try to look beyond duality.

  57. what bollock i don't even want to listen to this. god knows no sin. it is a human concept. an atempt to make time real.
    the soul is changeless, timeless formless. sin is just a play made up from our deception of what we think we are. as we forget that we are not bodies in truth. sin seem to be a thing but it is not a thing our creator shares with us. of course the bible does probably not put it that way. and the ego may interpret what i just said as a justification for sin. but it is our investing beliefe in sin that keeps it going. our investment in the unreal


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