Is a non duality a Philosophy or a Religion? | Non duality | Lisa Cairns



hello nice to see you to see you nice welcome to live stream let me quit some things for skip that if you can hear my computer is freaking out I think you can hear so welcome to the live stream if this is the first time you've ever been to the live stream then I'll tell you how it works you can write me questions through Skype which is in which the information is in the box below my Skype address is Lisa cans 12:00 and and you can ask questions you can call in if you call in make sure you have a headset with a microphone so it's not offensive to other people that are listening and also be aware that it's been recorded for the internet so whatever you say is public and can't be edited out afterwards the talk today is called that we see the title of the talk is non-duality a philosophy or a religion if you want to come to any of the events I'm doing the next event I'm doing is in London which is on the 20th of July July you can buy the tickets online on my website you can either buy them and pay in advance or you can pay on the door but you still have to book the ticket and you get the option whether you want to pay at the door or buy online once you book the ticket if you want to come to my event in August I'm doing a retreat seven-day retreat you can also book tickets online it's really a beautiful place in northern Germany so it's also very welcome to come there as well you can find out all this information on my website I'm also going to do an online retreat on the last Saturday of June but I just haven't put that on my website yet you can also keep a lookout so you can sign up to my website and then you'll get updates and emails about new events that I'm doing you can also subscribe to my YouTube channel and then by subscribing when I go live you can get notifications as long as you tick the notification box and you have it in your email or you have the email notification turned on before I do talk I always like to do some silent sitting for like 10-15 minutes hmm you're very welcome to join me to do that you you you hello welcome to welcome to livestream so is non-duality of philosophy or religion like after you look up them I have to look up what actually philosophy is I mean I know what my interpretation of is but I just want to read what is Wikipedia it's like the general consensus philosophy literally love of wisdom is the study of drun general and fundamental questions about existence knowledge values reasons mind and language such questions are often posed as problems to be studied a resolve the term was probably kind by Paragon Bruce + simple philosopher philosophical methods include questioning critical discussion rational argument and systematic presentation classic philosopher philosophical questions include is it possible to know anything and to prove it the camera went off apparently my apologies you can still hear me oops I thought that this was full of battery but it wasn't what mistake put the other battery in one second hello just having a nice look to my shirt so say so to me philosophy non-duality is a philosophy not a religion so if you look at the term philosophy like like that is what non-duality is whereas a religion let's just look up wiki wiki pedia what a religion is whereas religion region is the cultural system of designated behaviors practices morals world views text Santa fide places prophecies ethics organizations that relate to humanity to supernatural to transcendental or spiritual elements however there is no scholar II scholar asked on lowering sorry scholarly scorer school re scholarly no consequences over what precisely can constitutes a religion different religions may or may not contain various elements ranging from divine sacred things faith a supernatural being or supernatural beings or some sort of ultimate and transcendence that will prove provide norm power and powers for the rest of life religion practices may include really rituals some sermons sacrifices festivals feasts trances initiations funerary services meta MOT Metamora more monacle services meditation prayer music art dance public services or other aspects of human culture religion have sacred histories and narratives which may be preserved in sacred scriptures and symbols and holy places that a mostly to give the meaning to life the religion may contain symbolic stories which are sometimes said to by followers to be true that have the side purpose explaining the origin of life the universe and other things traditionally faith in addition to reason has been considered a source of religious beliefs there are over 10,000 distinct religions worldwide and eighty four of the world's paid four percent of the world's population is affiliated with one by five large religion groups namely Christian Islam Hindu Buddhism folk or folk religion so it goes on and on like describing the differences not the differences it goes on describing what religion is the only way in which it's related to religion to me is that there is some sort of shift that happens whereas in philosophy there's not a shift that's talked about so in non duality there is a shift from being someone from being a limited entity to being no one and an in religion they was saying that there is a something that transcends that see that's the only part in which I see it fitting with religion but maybe that's to do with my beliefs and ideas about religion to me religion is a group of people that have practices and ideas and faith and belief systems and they they will come together and they'll work towards something and they all have this these ideas in common and to me that's got nothing to do with non duality I think it happens in non duality I think that there's lots of organizations that try to make it into a religion so that people go to practice and people form a group and people hold ideas together and belief systems together they might even say in the group that they're not doing that but they clearly are doing that they have ways of being and interacting together they have this belief system of consciousness of of it being better than other ways of life of living together of community whereas philosophy doesn't contain that philosophy is just questioning what you believe to be true and something magical can happen when you question what you believe your reality to be like what you think this life is there is something magical underneath our concepts and our ideas limit us but it's got nothing to do with a group a political system or people coming together often people muddle it up because they don't know how to live their life in this society especially in Western cultures where we've changed so much in the last hundred years people are sort of kicked out of home and told to live and they don't know how to live anymore they don't know what the right thing is whether it's to marry have kids to take a job in a big company to start up an own business to to live off-grid there's so many options the Western people and throughout life I can imagine that religion and culture began to get like closely entwined because we don't know how to live ultimately and so to follow other people is comforting to us to be told how to beat how to live to be told what the meaning is to be told what your purpose is in life is relaxing for you and for there to be a group or a community that will practice that together it it can create this sense of family and that's beautiful I can imagine that's a very beautiful experience to have this sense of family that will believe in the same thing and working towards the same thing and or moving towards something especially if it's got nice values I can imagine that's really beautiful but that's not what non-duality is about non-duality isn't about how to live it's not about a group of people working together and mixing up these two ideas is how in the past we've got in trouble with religion becoming political and like our wars against each other I'm not saying it's the only reason for Wars but it's this idea of difference in its idea of like my group versus your group of my beliefs are more true than your beliefs I don't mean that group of people that in non-duality can't come together to live together and to do things together but just seeing that there isn't a non dual way of life there isn't like a the right way of living in non-duality it's not like Christianity it's not like other religions where it's subject-object that you are someone in relationship to the future that you're somebody that's moving towards think in the future that you're somebody in relationship to God to something out there that has to work hard that has to do certain things do certain practices to arrive somewhere and all of these groups always contain this idea of you versus the world arriving somewhere and that's a political thing that's a social thing that's got nothing to do with religion but it's it's often tied together and often a lot of these groups become more about cultural and social elements rather than the truth of what's in the background Potomac Lee because most people are afraid of their lives so afraid of living their life and doing what they want and desiring because they're afraid to step out of the box and be different or maybe they are different maybe they do step out the box to an extent but then they're afraid of loneliness so they're driven back to becoming part of a group and then driven back to this mentality that my spirituality or that my philosophy is something that I arrived to in the future you're never gonna arrive at non-duality you're never going to find a group of people when which you can have open-minded discussions and non-dual conversations and you'll become more enlightened because of it I think that's a fallacy of most people that you want to be more enlightened people and if you're with more enlightened people then you would be more free and this is a fantasy this is a more non-duality talking about non duality is the absolute destruction of your concepts it's asking like all the questions of what you believe like what you take to be true and just throwing them away it's not true it's not true and what is left Mercer time our mind is always set on hunting on what you can achieve and what you can get what you can take from this life and so when you begin to get into non-duality you want to make it into something that you can achieve and something that you can get and something that can be about the production of money or the production of your livelihood so this is when this religion and this group mentality takes over like making money as a group like creating a church and religion a ashrama society which could no sell cups or posters or books and make money and it can be about a way of life and and then in your mind you think you're doing something great for society or that you're doing something for the group in order to promote non-duality or the religion but that's got nothing to do with non-duality and I suspect all religions have non-duality at their source but your living circumstances you've been more comfortable in life isn't connected could you see that then you're afraid of how to live your life so that's not what that's not got anything to do in non-duality a lot of the problems come down to in the human world like how to live your life like why you've become unhappy in life is because the way that you've interacted with life and you focused on always trying to get pleasure and then that's been like ramped up by the idea that it's in housing it's in living together right in certain community or it's in having a husband or wife it's in having kids it's in having a retirement plan it's something in the future and and there's this desperate fear about fitting into that group about being protected and looked up and I know you know what I mean but you don't want to omit this because you don't want to address this but it's the source of suffering the saucy sauce that do scene I speak to the cat peace blob of ketchup it's the saucy sauce so what most people are running around this planet doing being afraid of this survival and often being part of a religious group is about survival like your purpose on this planet is to survive normally this is a fundamental question which baffles especially a lot of Westerners because they don't have the struggle to survive anymore so then they're like what's the point to being alive what's the point T my survival and your point actually is is to survive but you don't believe me because you think there must be a bigger meaning it must be like helping the world or discovering out who discovering who you are there must be a deeper reason for being alive on the human level the basic instinct is to survive is to earn money depend on this society or in if you have money or to earn money to collect food to eat to have shelter to survive and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that with that movement towards wanting to survive often what happens to us though it's because of our identity because of this person that we believe we ask this image that we hold of ourselves this idea that we hold because of this idea what happens is is that we create all these fake images about what the meaning of our life is or should be and we create narrative about ourselves which doesn't allow us to feel unnatural instinctual purpose so on the basic level your natural level is to survive and survival means food the collection of food being part of a group and community creating children it's these very basic things like an animal I know that most people like tank painting and I see that when I begin to talk about this stuff I do see it on YouTube I see the statistics that people turn off when I begin to talk about this survival element because it's really really offensive to your story how can it be that your life is about survival my life must be about something greater and this is when you create all these fantasies and there's religions about God being good and and like saving all the others from their sins all these types of fantasies but just come back and just listen to what I'm saying practically so so you have this natural desire to survive and it doesn't mean that the natural desire to survive is being an asshole part of what we are as humans which is super beautiful is that we're community animals and we do have this natural instincts your drive to protect and to serve others which is super beautiful and we had this creative mind that can think of lots of creative ways in which to survive to help other people to help our environment to help animals so it's not like I'm not talking about selfishness believe this natural desire to survive and then what we have on top of this is our idea of ourselves which is formed for so many years around this ego this identity and the ego believes that the purpose of its life so this illusory sense of self this illusion I believes that my purpose in life is to maintain the maximum amount of pleasure I can and to avoid pain as much as possible again that's not conscious so you might not see that or recognize that in yourself but but when you begin to pay attention to the body and you begin to see what's actually happening or realize that there is this dynamic inside of you that is desperate to maintain pleasure let me give you examples of maintaining pleasure pleasure could be the idea of helping other people pleasure could be the idea of this God in the future that you're going to meet one day and that you're going to do all these good deeds for and you're gonna combat evil pleasure could be watching TV eating food belief systems you hold a friend moaning with friends telling people what assholes people are in your life like this is a pleasure this the reliefs endorphins in your body pleasure can be surfing the internet pleasure can be like posting lots of photos about yourself in very six sexy positions with puffed up lips and people ticking at pleasure can be food eating drinking so just think about what it is that you want in your life and you'll notice that it's always about pleasure on the human level always about getting pleasure and what we do is we determine our meaning by pleasure it's not a conscious thing again but we see that a meaningful life is one that's contained lots of pleasure that is total illusion that's a mind that's made up by date dear that's a philosophy that people have created and clung to believes that that's truth that's not truth it's a fantasy there's got nothing to do with this moment right here what's happening now it's totally irrelevant the meaning of your life these 80 years in which you've left lived these that all these for 40 years in which you've lived but there's 80 years you've got to live and you've got to have a main meaningful life and what that means is more power than others bigger house and others nice nice holidays lots of good food successful children lots of money blah blah blah nobody's gonna say nobody thinks like that a good well successful life is somebody that worked in the box office at the theater and was on basic wage and had a very simple apartment nobody thinks that's a good life or somebody that works in the laundrette or something and that this is absolute lie by the mind it's an illusion that wealth in some way is more meaningful than poverty but notice how we're deeply connected to this idea that is our purpose and that good things and pleasure is our purpose even if we're not conscious of it it's subconsciously happening in our culture all the time so so philosophy back to philosophy so you could say currently that science is our new religion you could say also that the Internet is our new religion in society like we believe this to be true or money is our new religion but non-duality certainly isn't a religion if you really understand what it means it means nothing you know it leaves you as nothing it's not about you it's the only it's the only philosophy that I've ever heard or concepts that I've ever heard or anything that I've ever heard that is absolutely not about you surviving in some way it's not about you getting more money it's not about you being more beautiful more successful more happy it's about remembering something of what is it's beyond the person it's completely not a personal thing to the person it's absolutely irrelevant because to the person you're what you're looking for is pleasure what you're looking for is something that adds to you and this doesn't add to you but that's impossible for you to imagine and if you really comprehended that you'd be like oh this I'm off to I'm off to the guy next door who offers me something where I try and send and then I'm in permanent bliss and ecstasy and have tantric lovemaking with my friend and Boober Boober this really doesn't offer you anything and that's what's so spectacular about non-duality and that's why it's totally unconditioned love because it's nothing bound to this world if it was something about you getting there then it would be instantly put into money it would instantly be put into something – it's something for us to buy something that we had to work for B power struggles over it there'd be arguments over it there is none dualities not about that which is super super beautiful so so the reason that I say non-duality is a philosophy because what it does it tries to point out the illusion of what you believe to be true this is all like your process but then you'll begin to be pointed out or it begin to be pointed out that even you is an idea arising and so it's not really your process because who the process is it like so the deepest question is who is you who are you who is this person at the bottom experiencing of all of this but there's lots of ideas that you believe like this belief that non duality is a religion in some way that you need to be with non duality people that you need to live in a non duality house that you need to have a guru that you need to travel to India you need to do things to practice to get to non duality that is ideas there was an idea that I think I was talking about oh yeah and even so even the idea that what you're striving for on the human level is about pleasure or is about money or survival even that it's difficult for you to hear and difficult for you to know because you can't feel it when you can feel it in your body you'll know it to be true I think you can feel it if I say to you you're afraid of being lonely so a lot of people are afraid of this loneliness and this is something they imagine this loneliness that they're going to get in the future and that they've got to work hard to avoid so the loneliness is connected to survival the reason that we're afraid on a human level to be alone is because we can't survive alone if we're kicked out of this group we don't have anyone that can help us if we're we don't have anyone that can listen to us if we're emotionally upset we don't have anyone that can make us feel secure we don't have anyone that can bring us food if we can't get food we don't have any company to reflect back ideas and talk to and reflecting ideas means that we grow our knowledge and grow our understanding of our environment we grow our knowledge about ourselves and the way that we can think think think about things we that community communicating is super important in our society because firstly it we're growing from each other so we use each other to be creative about the way we think so it helps us expand our knowledge and like it's much better to have like ten people thinking about something than just one person because it as long as all of the people have been thinking about that thing a long time and you're not constantly being pulled back by somebody stupidity as long as it's like already quite a high level so oh all your instincts to be around people is about survival what is love can you actually love someone a gilts not love feeling guilty if you have kids or feeling concerned or feeling worried about them that's more love that is what it is in the moment it's arising it's a guilt feeling that you've not done enough for them or feeling scared about their future that's not love love is a feeling of beauty a feeling of expansion that happens in the chakra in the heart chakra so guilt and feeling insecure about them or worried about them that isn't love worrying about someone isn't them being afraid not to be with someone because you'll be lonely isn't love feeling over over overly estatic about somebody loving you so when you fall in love even though there can be qualities of true love in there so when you fall in love with someone it's often a massive high because that other person is validating your insecurities so so when you fall in love you suddenly feel worthy to somebody you feel like somebody sees you you feel like somebody hears you you feel like you've got connection so all of these things that you feel when you're falling in love when you get that ecstatic feeling is actually because they're completing a part of you that's missing so that can't be loved how can you truly love another if it's because they're giving you something which completes you that's not truly loving another that's using them to fulfill your desires and to fulfill your insecurities so love isn't a negative feeling in any way feeling loved someone because you can't live without them that's not love that doesn't its what I'm talking about this this well-being like the feeling sensation of love that actual feeling of it so you know when you love someone because you have that feeling towards them it's not selfish feeling where where it's based on when they treat you a certain way or when they do certain things and the way that you can know if it's a selfish dealing is it can turn to hate really quickly if they don't give you attention if they don't give you affection you suddenly really hate them because who do they think they are to take something away from you so obviously it's based on the way they treat you like it's based on not the way they treat you but what they give you in the moment like a love it isn't something based on something it's it's unconditioned love but often we don't know our body well enough to see all of this so we're confused we're in this fog we're in this mire or this illusion of everything we think so what we think is that we can have all types of things we think that people should give us attention we think that our parents should treat us in a certain way we think our parents should love us we think that our kids should behave in a certain way we believe that we should be a certain way when we're interacting with people we believe we've got this image of what we should be like as a mother the image of what we should be like as a father and then we we try to live up with that to that and it confuses our feelings right now and we get all these illusions and all these lying stories that are going on so you get lost in the fog so say if you've got a strong story that you need to be a perfect mother and then say if somebody implies or gives you the feeling you're not perfect mother then what you'll do is you'll go to a good friend and your moan about that person and talk about what a bitch that person is and it's not that that person is actually a bit sure that that person has any inherent quality is that it made you feel insecure so then you go for some to someone else to make you feel secure again and we're constantly knots in this fog whether it be at work with our kids with a husband of what we believe to be true and all of this is based on survival but we've got a very complicated survival compared to like dogs and other mammals because there's a lot more complicated because we can think about our behavior we can think about ourselves and we can think about the other out there so then what I'm saying is that non-duality isn't for that person in a way in in any way and isn't about that person in any way and isn't about satisfying that person so then what is non-duality they're so hard to say what it is it's not really something that I can tell you in the positive I can say to you what it's not like this is illusion this is illusion but it's it's this essence it's this moment it's the simplicity of being and it's an energetic shift from being an illusionary character so being something you believe to being what you are which is this moment which is what you've always been it's hot today I see that I'm sweating in the camera I certainly feel hot so non-duality isn't for you it's got nothing to do with you and you just got to be realistic like what are you in this for like obviously you is always in this for you so you is always about your achieving something can you getting somewhere and just be honest about that there's nothing wrong with that but there's something else that resonates with this then knows this that's um there's got nothing to do with a human aspect that it's about this empty looking and this sense of being alive this these two qualities always there in every experience and then when there's a resonance the person can kind of like remember that or feel that and then it the person seemingly gets motivated by that only because it sees that as the next best thing as the as the next pleasurable thing to get but then the person begins to realize all the human level yeah what I'm looking for isn't in this and that it isn't in work it isn't in women it isn't a men isn't in relationships isn't in kids it isn't in big houses there is something else okay so begin to answer questions now hi Shawn hi Lisa it's turning into god damn religion what is the first shift the separation from the ego mind oh that's not the question what is the first shift the separation from the ego mind or thinking mind oh we don't know the difference between the ego mind and the thinking mind I think that you are going back to Ramesh or Rogers teaching like so but even he liked Ramesh will say you are the ego um so I'll just put it into my language again like um rather than me going to your language so it's too complicated if I try and speak in Ramesh's or Rogers language so I just have to pull it back to the way I speak so there is this thinking mind so we can think about things and then there's a seeking energy which you may be a call in the ego and the seeking energy is when you're always trying to get to pleasure and avoid pain you're always looking for the next experience that's going to complete you and the seeking is never satisfied to be here it's always wanting to be somewhere else it's always in regret expectation blame guilt resentment and it's always pulling into time whether it's something about regretting the past or trying to be somewhere in the future and it's not about actually being here and what's happening now it's about something curves it's always lost in an illusion somewhere else and in that illusion it is desperately seeking for pleasure and it believes when I get to pleasure I'm going to arrive home I'm gonna have made it I'm gonna have got cross the finish line and I can finally relax and then it never happens it's whole life it keeps seeking pleasure pleasure pleasure and it never gets there so this is what's happening and then what and then what happens at some point is there's a disconnection from that there is breaking and there can be brief breakings like what throughout your day you'll find there is opening and contracting when you're more open you'd call yourself happy and when you're more closed you'd call yourself unhappy but then at some point there can be a break where you completely see that who you are is something that's not bodily I mean in one way on the absolute level you could say like you are the body and the body of everything so you all there is is body and the body is the whole world but there's something the brakes and sees that you aren't limited to the body you're not limited to the senses you're not limited to that particular person so there's a break that happens and then this and then it's seen really clearly that actually what you are is presence this empty looking that's totally empty of everything that's totally empty of it's totally empty of thoughts feelings sensations smells touch taste any of the senses it's beyond that but yet you've always known it's always been there in the experience but it's not you that gets it you don't turn around and start thinking about it me like that's what Lisa is talking about it's something that doesn't think or doesn't talk it just is here watching and then that would be an initial awakening and then what there can be for many years after that is this expanding out completely to being no one and then coming back to being someone and this that contraction and the expansion can be happening where you you can tracked really small and you believe you're someone and then you expand you and who you are is no one like who's experiencing this life is no one and through through that and then even when this shift happens it's energetic shift and then it's no one experiencing anymore the body is still the body and the person is still the person and the body still wants to seek for its survival even though it's not a seeker anymore the first the body still wants to survive so maybe don't say seek for survival but this body still strives to produce a living or produce money or keep relationships or whatever it is but it's no longer belief that you're believed that that you are doing that that you're creating are doing your life because you are the body you aren't that person UI everything yes it should be philosophy as it seemed so complicated yeah like the reason I like calling a philosophy is because philosophy isn't about getting anywhere and it's not about a belief system but also ultimately it's not any of those on the ultimate level but when we're talking about in human language I would prefer to call it philosophy than religion Mooji cells photos of his feet yeah I should start doing that accepted that are very pretty free feet don't know if people would mind I just put it you know in the YouTube below they sometimes have t-shirts or cups on sale and you can see it in the YouTube box I can just have pictures of my feet and I was a kid I used to hold my feet in a lot because I was scared of going to score and I was scared of the teachers and it created like no belief eat like my little toes of little knobs on them I don't do that with my toes anymore but they still got bumps like Ashlee not the most attractive feet I used to be embarrassed about them see they're all nobly familias leave out that all the time I was scared and also my mom used to buy me shoes that were too small for me she didn't mean to I had funny shape size for yourself funny sized feet so yeah I don't know if people buy mine because my feet aren't so attractive I'm sure Muji's got those perfect baby feet it's like nice separation between all the toes maybe I can get them photoshopped Haran has been my pleasure but I stopped it for non-duality what's the point of non-duality then the there's no point for you on the human level for non-duality I can't stress that enough it does shift the personality structure when it's seen that there is a shifting of it like so the person most will be becomes nicer karma and you're no longer it is total freedom because you'll no longer bound to that but it's got nothing to do with you the person's still going to have its problems its issues its belief systems well maybe not belief systems so strongly but it's still going to have its way of being so it's still going to have its tendencies like who gets this you're so convinced that you get this and that you're doing this for you all you're interested on in the human level is how to survive best and now you've deemed happiness of surviving best because you put you used to be a heroin addict and I'm sure that was disaster for your survival you've pissed everyone off around you and up good life I'm sure doing that like the but I don't mean to be harsh and like it sounds like I'm really like anti drug addicts I'm not but I'm sure that heroin has made it so difficult for you to function and to make it would have made you make really poor decisions and really annoy people around you because you look it created lots of pain in relationship what's the point of non-duality the there is no point you could say that life is wanting to recognize itself so life wants to know itself like it's created these complex forms and it's now coming to a point where it is one of these forms and it knowingly knows it's a form so it wakes up to itself again and from being asleep from being an illusion it then remembers itself in some way otherwise it just is itself like the dogs the birds the bees the insects but I suspect also on an evolutionary level that humans are getting to the place where they need to to do this in order to complete the next stage of their survival because at the moment they're so selfish and greedy that they're destroying everything and greed is exponential you are definitely hot I've been using non-duality to avoid responsibility I swear my feet are exactly the same yes it was heroin yeah okay okay Lewis so happy I'm watching life nice to see you Lewis hey Thomas lovely to see you nice to see you too Thomas hey chase hi Lisa I sent you a DM on Instagram god I don't use Instagram I mean I do have an Instagram account but I don't even know how to get private messages on Instagram I just um I put a picture on their account occasionally a view possibility possibly going live with me on Instagram app one day so if you respond and follow me on there I can make it happen yes I'm happy to go live with you and to do that chase but I'm never going to see your message and I get so many messages a day forget it you're gonna have to write to me in a different way so write to me after this Skype and I'll tell you a different way to write to me cuz I'm not gonna see that on Instagram thanks so for reminding me hi Lisa your pictures disappear I'll game back thanks Kerala not religion not philosophy but a shift in realization the play of the player to non-judgmental observer hey Amy hello Lisa I have a question about some Vizio videos I recently watched in which you were being interviewed along with Tim freak he seems to have a very different experience than you do or he describes it very differently when he talks about non-duality it sounds like there are three things happening the transcendent transcendence the imminent and an observer of both with the movement between them it sounds very divided and it sounds more like my own experience no matter how beautiful any experience is it's still in the experience I find it unsatisfactory and painful when you speak it's much more free and undivided can you explain about this having a very long time ago that I did that with free freak maybe like five or six years ago and it's a common by the way he speaks basically that was a long time ago it was any a couple of times I think it's really popular because he's advertised it a lot on YouTube I really didn't enjoy that it's the reason I don't do conferences is from those conversations not just because of Tim it was also a valiant element to it as well but it really put me off doing conferences I do sometimes do conferences but very rarely yeah they put you in a panel like they do this thing where they put you in a panel and then they like set you up to all argue against each other and to me it just seems up be ridiculous it might be exciting and entertaining for the audience but it hurts my heart that it felt like I was selling myself cheap like yeah that dis gave me that feeling like this is really beautiful and it was like being set up so people would argue because it was entertaining so I stopped doing conferences but I don't really remember the talk I just remember more that feeling and I don't know it's too it's too high for me to say what he's talking about the transcendence the immanent and the observer of both there's a moment between them all and I don't know I just don't know I can't remember like when you say it sounds very divided and it's more like my own experience no matter how beautiful and experiences it's still an experience I find it unsatisfactory and painful and you want to be gets much more free and undivided but every experience I don't know I can't work out what you're asking me I don't know what you mean you have to justify it a bit more are you up I did another yeah it's too confusing so you can call in and we can speak in person just that there's an observer from Tim's perspective there's an observer yeah might just be the way he teaches here there is no observer if you can see an observer of finest observer that's not the observer because you can't find it you've grabbed something but in mind it's a divided of mind there is only experiencing which is everything but it's also so hard to teach this that you can understand that some people call it the observer or I mean I call it the empty looking or consciousness actually there is no consciousness there's simply everything which is self conscious it's this idea that consciousness is inside the body in some way the consciousness rests behind the eye and is inside looking out at this world yeah yeah but there is a character that comes and goes but when you're just sitting here and I'm looking at the carrot and the camera there's no character it's just what's happening was just speaking was just looking but as soon as you ask me what I did today then suddenly up it peers this image of Lisa and what she did today I guess I'm making a problem out of nothing and I suspect that what you want is that you just want to be free of it if you want to not suffer anymore that's what you want on the surface level but underneath what's happening is there is a seeking to try to arrive somewhere but there's never anywhere to arrive it's right here there's no way to arrive right here hi Vikram did you want to speak we can speak but sometimes people call when they I just want to make sure he wants to speak hi Gina Carlo hey Lisa I was wondering if I could hold on I have a phone and have to switch between YouTube and Skype so if yes just acknowledge and give me 20 seconds to switch back to Skype to call sure so just call me when you're ready let me make sure that the camera is still in focus yes just called Dino Carlo just go make sure you put your headset in and a good internet connection okay I just done take another question we'll wait for him to get back to me hi thoughts hey Lisa thanks for bringing the survival topic up again last time it was hard for me to accept hello Gina Carlo hello hey Gina hello but I think you've got very good connection hello okay yeah I think you've got really bad connection just let me turn my video off and see if that helps Harlan okay okay maybe you can turn off yours are you near your intern Internet books maybe you can turn off your okay so your picture your video but maybe go really near to the internet box okay I'm just gonna hang up well then you sort it out okay who was I just answering the question to thought last time it was hard for me to accept it scared me to see myself in daily struggle for survival and I felt that there is more to life than survival this time I could see it with less resistance you see when you're resisting it and you're denying it what's happening is that you're feeling it but you're trying to tell yourself a different story about it and then then what happens is that your body is in tension so like like what you're feeling is you're feeling you're struggling to survive where you're feeling you're not earning enough money or that survival is hard but you're not acknowledging it to yourself and then maybe you're blaming society or wishing for alternative ways to live or daydreaming about winning lottery and then you're telling yourself a different story and what this does is this builds up complications in the chakra body so in the feeling body and it's like a lie so at the bottom of it you feel vulnerable and you feel like you're not surviving well and then on the surface you tell yourself all these illusionary stories which actually keeps that feeling in play and basically the best thing that you can do is to acknowledge the base level of it that you feel that you can't survive which is something you have been taught by the education system our education system in Europe is absolutely shite absolutely shite I'm so grateful that we have a society and that we're currently in the evolutionary process where we see education as a right for every person that's born into our society and I'm super grateful for that but for the majority of people including myself the education system really fails unless you're really intelligent it really fails you or you've got strong intelligence in a conformity type of way and not like you can be strongly intelligent and still not fit into the society society and education system but an education system that believes that in order to learn you've got to work is totally out of sync with our natural way of being all other animals play to learn how to work so a dog play fights a dog play hunts the cat play hunts ipecac kay fights we play to learn how to grow our abilities but in Western culture we see or most education system see that play is for playtime and the rest of the time you have to force yourself to work and to do things that you don't want to do and it's yeah and I'm super against it I would say though that I'm so for our society the fact that we see it as a basic human right is really beautiful but I'm sorry I'm gonna say this and the moolies loads of audience members now but having kids and sending them into the education system the government education system I know that you most will be don't hurt the finances not to do it but this is a really bad idea really us up to be taught every day for 13 years that work is work and players play is completely against our nature we will naturally find our way of wanting to survive if we're allowed to grow our talents not to be forced to be good at English into maths and geography and all these crazy subjects and to sit behind a desk for a kid with so much energy at the age of five to be sitting around behind a desk most of the day's crazy nuts this really bad system and to be judged and to be put through exams it really mentally is not good for your child and so if you're gonna have kids and if you have kids really think about you know how are you going to educate them like if we want our society to progress got to as a parent think and we want our society to be more open and more loving and more free you have to think when you have kids how are you going to educate them because our society does not offer a good education system it might make them good at certain skills which are good for being in the office but it won't make them happy it'll make them seriously unhappy I would say that it's mostly only twenty or thirty percent of the kids actually thrive in school and they're ones that are meant to work in offices and are good at these kind of academic or not or these academic roles but there's so many more jobs than that in our society and then what happens is you go out into the workplace and you're not somebody that's meant to be sitting behind the work desk all day but then you end up and these kind of technical jobs because that's what you've been trained to do and then it's really against your system and your system is scoping no now no everyday and you've built up years and years of unhappiness around it and then to break out of that you first of all have to learn new skills so learn a different skillset and then you also have to find out what it is with what it is that you want to do because your society have taught you so much there's so many things that you can't do and you have to sit behind that table and work all day so if you are having survival issues you motional be traumatized by school and your most will be traumatized by your parents forcing you to be good at school I can know that parents are doing it because they come out into the society and they realize that if you do better at school then you can have more money and your life will be easier but that's so mentally unhealthy for a child to be in that environment and there are lots of schools now in Sweden and in some of the northern countries that are promoting play over work so so it's child lead and you follow the child's play and what they intuitively do and naturally go towards so so so basically what you're having is you're having psychological issues that come from your education your belief around the production of money and your belief around survival and that's got to be changed so you you have to understand what it is that you think what it is that you're telling yourself what it is that you believe around survival and most people believe if they don't work hard they can't survive and like attracts like so if you believe that deep down then that's going to be your experience in everyday living and it's just looking at that what is it that I deeply believe and seeing it to be not be true and then you can work with it to try and change it on the human level this isn't non-duality this is about the personality structure the illusionary personality structure that grows once you believe you're someone but you can tidy the cage you can tidy up what it is to be you to make your survival easier to make your response to work to the environment easier now it feels relaxing to admit that simply the body wants to survive and get most pleasure and avoid the pain a game that can't be won thanks for that oh that's great and what is more lies beyond survival and I have a question in the last days I find myself really missing my ex-girlfriend and when I ask myself what do I want I feel the body wants to feel safe in contact and loved and also there is a wanting to come home in the deepest sense could it be that survival and longing for home mixed together and what do you recommend for handling it um first of all coming back to what you feel and finding out for yourself I would reckon that that longing and missing her more than likely is about wanting to be home and wanting to be safe and just realizing that realizing that that's what our relationships tend to consist of and there's nothing wrong with that but a lot of our relationships do tend to be based on survival dynamics that you want to feel safe that you want companionship that you want intimacy and these are survival dynamics because surviving alone is a lot more risky and a lot more dangerous and then also two minds are better than one so surviving with another and bouncing off the ideas and coming to a balance is better than just one mind so all of it's about survival affection and love and all of this improves your happiness and your sense of well-being and then helps improve your relationship to the world getting part of a community feeling like there's somebody there to support you and there's nothing wrong with wanting these things but just being really honest with yourself and seeing that your freedom if you look for freedom in there you won't find it that so the body might want it and that's fine and the body can go after it but you won't actually find what you're truly looking for in it like so those impulses arise in the body just like eating food and finding shelter says impulsed also mate and to be in companionship and these these thoughts that you're saying are much more real and true than the thoughts of like I want these big romantic stories to find my soul mate I'm living the rest of my life barbar all these types of things are just being really honest with it and then and then seeing that that doesn't actually bring you what you want that's just the movement in life so the movement has an impulse to be in part of a group or to be with another person but your freedom is right here so whether you have that or not doesn't disrupt your freedom and the freedom is the experiencer of this the freedom is this moment the freedom is what never leaves that's always here always here yes most mud masters including you have declared a long arduous journey before awakening yet all of them say it is here and now and you don't need to go anywhere yet all of them did try for years that's confusing doesn't need F years of effort you're asking question from confusion you believe that Awakening is about you like who is it that awakens so there might be a description in the apparent story of all the different things that happened but who is it awakens so you say yeah one of them say is any here and you don't need to go anywhere especially not really exactly what we're saying that you don't need to go anywhere I'm not actually saying that I mean maybe I didn't think that you go back and find me saying anything I'm saying that the freedom that you look for that you seek is here it's not in things I'm not talking about whether you do meditation or whether you look at feelings or examine feelings or try and change feelings or emotions I'm saying it's here but do you need a little bit of a story saying that it's okay for years to seek for this like it's okay whatever you're feeling there's nothing you're doing wrong whatever happens hi Fabio hello Lisa do you think that psychotherapy can be helpful in the human level yes but just find a psychotherapist or somebody that works with you that my issue with psychotherapy with a lot of traditional psychotherapy is it always stays in the dream of the person so and they don't use the body some do but try and find someone that really brings in the bodily element and what it is and that somebody that goes beyond that as well that also suggests there's another possibility otherwise it's always the person is trying to fix it saris and fix itself and it doesn't even question the balloted validity of the stories but yeah I think it can be helpful to speak with someone that makes you see like why you keep putting your hand in the fire or why you keep doing this or what you need to change or what dynamics are acting out again and again hello beautiful use at least Lisa hey Natalia I used to want to not want to be pure to gain these freedoms by not wanting anything now I see that this is happening inside myself this human is happening in this and this realization somehow giving space and light to these parts the character that I wanted to hide so before I go on I just want to speak about that so Natalia is it is that to do with conditioning there is nothing wrong with wanting sometimes when we grow up with families or in the education system we taught so strongly that were not allowed to get what we want well there's something shameful about what we want like when I was growing up I had two sick people in my family I've talked about this before I think that my grand I was groped my ground my mom my dad and my brother and my brother and my ground were very sick a lot of the time and anyone that had any other wants or needs there wasn't really any room for it so as a child like him that being my conditioning I was conditioned that my wants and needs weren't important or caused problems so I had to squash them down so when I came into non-duality I also had this approach that I wanted to not have any wants and needs because I believe that that was the perfect human that would be loved by other people it wasn't actually because of non-duality it was my relationship to non-duality and i used to find things like Laura action like repulsive because I just thought it was so selfish or so arrogant or such nonsense because I was ashamed of what I wanted because I've never had that validated I'd always had that my wants created friction because what other people with more needs and once in my family and so establishing what I wanted and and understanding what I wanted on the human level was super important but it's still something that I have to do and put effort into but on an ultimate level like there is no one say you can't sit here and the body can just like be totally free but then the Commerce decisions that need to be made and that comes movements and choices and there's once and the once feel like love most people think that when they want something it's a thought but actually when you want something it might be an image and a thought but it's also a vibration in your body of positivity when you want something and it's a vibration of negativity really question that because that's not what I want should be a one should be a natural one that's not about greed that's not about selfishness that's not about seeking it's just a vibration of love or a vibration of goodness I would like to say about moody because I started non-duality by watching him and I have met him two times in person and it was very very strong experience and I'd ethically very high vibration and I wanted to stay there feeling this extreme joy this is also natural that we want to feel good so this vibration vibrational high is wanted I feel also that this is making some work inside I don't know how to explain this maybe you could say something about this thank you I was such drink I enjoyed that yeah sure so I don't know there's nothing there's two things about joining an ashram or an organization like like in some ways I can see it being really beneficial that if I thought about myself like sometimes I think if like I have Khaleesi to look after but if I didn't have to see to look after and I wasn't doing this so sometimes consider that I would join an ashram or something because survival is easier they come very happy doing gardening or like mundane jobs in an ashram somewhere and the whole survival is looked after and it's a very simple life and there's something very nice and easy about that what I would find difficult about being in the ashram is if I had was asked to prescribe to a belief system like a really strong belief system which most ashrams you are required to I think including Muji's and also asked to ignore bad behaviors from people in power I would struggle to do that but I do see that it is an easier way of life especially if you haven't if you're young or even if you're older and you haven't really that created a life in this outside world or if you have you're not particularly liking it so I do understand that so also from the vibrational level you don't remember like when you meet a guru in the gnash Ram there is a lot of energy happening there because not only have you got the teacher which I suspect has had the energetic shift I suspect Muji's had that energetic shift I think that some of I can't guarantee that but I think that some of his characteristics beforehand he didn't deal with and emotionally being acted out now like some characteristics that aren't very nice but that's because he didn't deal with it before and personality the character doesn't dissolve but I suspect that there's been the energetic shift there or there's been a big energetic shift I don't know because something could happen that but I so have a nice feeling when I listen to him there's a nice energy that it comes from but when you go to the ashram which can be confusing for people and can get people stuck in there you get not just hears but anybody's is that you've got hundreds and hundreds of people worshipping him not just him Mooji but other teachers so you've got he can go to the some of them you know like so what was that teacher that big one side Bubba and he had thousands and thousands of people watching him worshiping him so when you go to a satsang there isn't only the teachers energy which is open and expanded and free you've also got thousands of people around them giving that person love and that is that can have a huge effect on you but that's not actually freedom those are two different things it happens when you go to a concert as well it's like you get into delirium it's the same with if you go into a room and you've got lots of people hate and hate and anger and bitterness like if you went maybe into a pretty prison you'd feel this tight contraction but also you've got this energy when lots of people are around loving that one person or that one odd object there's lots of positive energy that's being in that group which can be really beautiful but that's not freedom that's a that's an emotional reaction happening on the human level and that that also can behave like a drug so it can become an addiction it's like eat at name in English yes I understand this so so if your so then what happens is you go and live in the ashram and he will become like a drug to everyone so everyone will have this like really wonderful projection onto Mooji and will always be on to the person I don't mean see we speak about poor Mooji like I'm also super grateful that Mooji has made non-duality so accessible for people I just don't like this other sexual stuff so and the the whole kind of power structured things so then everybody is addicted to this drug and everyone's fighting for his attention this isn't such a psychologically healthy environment to be in like you'd be better off in a more neutral like Buddhist ashram then in Bac ashram that's always fighting for one person's attention because it gives that person a lot of power and if that person isn't psychologically very balanced and though be greedy and they won't they can't help but pick the fruits of pick the fruits from from the Sangha so like living the best house live in a giant mansion where everyone else beeps in holes and have most the money in their name sleep with the young students and that's a psychological thing and and then what you're doing is you have to you know that deep down that there's an unbalanced and there's something not quite right going on there and then you have to swallow it and you have to like lie to yourself about it pretend it's not happening and if you question it in the group the group will jump on you they won't let you think or question it this isn't healthy this is like schooling environment this is like our society this is that goes back to the world I'm a new sort of like get into the dogma of the group nothing Mooji says can never be wrong and that you guys are always unenlightened and that you've always got to and work on yourself but having said that you know sometimes that's a better option than your living environment thank you you're telling me my thoughts loudly but I'm not against it like if after I had this big awakening I did go and consider living in an ashram in India cuz um I just wanted a really simple life and everything seemed too complicated I heard that options and then when I came back to West I just wanted a really simple job of being a dog walker or something but it's never that simple in the West because we have to maintain so much paperwork in order to exist in the West whereas an ashram in India seemed like it could be just invisible I also appreciate a media I appreciate Mooji to I don't mean to sound like I really dislike him I think that's freedom there and I'm grateful for him sharing all those words I just don't agree with this whole guru thing for many reasons that I've said in the past and there's no excuse for it there's no excuse for some behaviors saying it's God or saying it's the divine and acted out and I'm not talking about Mooji here I'm talking about other guru figures it doesn't that instant intuitively it feels wrong and it feels wrong for every one that comes in contact with it but the other stories of having a guru and you getting somewhere overcomes it and so then you begin to shut your eyes to it just like in this society those your intuitive feeling feels like there's nothing something not quite right about that but the organization will keep saying you know your intuitive feeling is wrong that is ego that is a lie there is nothing wrong with these power discrepancies yeah you see the thing the nice thing about revenues at Rab is it is there is like there is an in-person allottee there as in in regards to Ramona's not still around so it's got a system that works there isn't such a hierarchical system I'm sure it's the entire rack well I'm not against hierarchical actually it's just as long as the hierarchy is balanced and not being greedy I actually when I was thinking about the Essure I was thinking about Armas ashram which is really there do some really crazy things yeah but it done I felt quite good hi Lisa if there's no observer who is looking and experiencing exactly it's everything there is no separate observer there is everything that is observing okay so the red notification on Instagram for DMS is at the top right corner of your screen but I would just email you so when you see it you'll notice me here call it's not that it's just I don't ever go on it like I think that you project onto me that I've got good memory which I don't to have a good memory like so when I come off this I won't remember to go on to integrand Instagram see your message hey bonsoir come on area how are you going I'm sorry I tried calling it must be my connection yeah I think you know Carlo your connections really bad you also need a headset as well freak was taking the piss freak was patronizing you freak can be beep free beep okay when I was staring into your eyes I stopped thinking I've been in depression through addiction for twenty years well understanding on duality solve this isn't an undo allottee enlightenment and then do you have a TS freedom if you want to call enlightenment and you can but it's nobody's enlightenment hey Lisa I'm planning to send my school my kids are walled up school in Sweden and it's funny that I listen to you just now that I'm going to sit all night fixing the papers to submit tomorrow morning yeah that's great I think in northern in the northern part so in Germany in Sweden there are a lot more water school they learn about France and England and Spain and Italy and all that in Europe but I know certainly in German and Steiner schools which are address different approach to learning like I don't know how anyone could think that that could possibly be a good thing to send us kid to mainstream school um not so nice for a lot of kids but we're so indoctrinated to like I was watching this comedy program of this young kid who's being interviewed and he was talking about he was in school so they were asking about school and he was like yeah they like send me there like for like 10 days straight I have to go from like 9:00 a.m. to like 6:00 a.m. and he's like it's like being in prison it's torture and all the audience is laughing but laughing in a way like they know and they're like welcome to the real world real world which is such a bad attitude like society thinks that work or education should be this torture camp it should be this thing where you're doing things constantly that you don't like doing thanks I really appreciate your answer and that you don't enjoy those panels I sense that but it was helpful because it made me realize something about where I've been stuck I keep using the natural coming and going of the characters evidence that I still have a separate me once you help me bring it back to the simplicity of just this I realized it's just a smoke and leftover from believing in the real thanks again and again not totally me yeah yes Lee agree with you 200% on the education system it's so overdue for reform the Rudolf Steiner schools are very different in terms of approach but they're still considered a little too hippie even in Scandinavia I do think things definitely are moving in the right way though yeah do I know Shiva the interior yes have been there lots okay time for me to go I think its initial the questions but it's coming up at the past eight o'clock that's two hours I've been doing that's enough for tonight so I'm here again on Wednesday at 6 p.m. French time so you're very welcome to join me thank you for all your questions and yeah and if you want to join this online retreat I'm doing then subscribe to my website or keep up dated on my website and I'll put it on there in the next coming days thanks guys bye