Father Spitzer’s Universe – 2019-08-21 – Why Do We Need a Church?

Posted By on September 21, 2019


[MUSIC]>>Doug: HERE WE ARE, ONCE AGAIN, IN THE HEART OF “FR. SPITZER’S UNIVERSE” AT THE BUSY INTERSECTION LOCATED WHERE FAITH AND REASON MEET. I’M DOUG KECK AT THE EWTN STUDIOS IN IRONED ALABAMA WHERE IT ALL BEGAN ON MOTHER ANGELICA WAY. DON’T FORGET, THIS PROGRAM REQUIRES YOU TO EMAIL US OR ASK US QUESTIONS ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER AND DON’T FORGET TO CHECK OUT THE WEB SITE, magiscenter.com AND crediblecatholic.com WHICH IS WHAT WE’RE GOING THROUGH THIS WEEK AND ON GOING. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE TOPIC OF WHY WE NEED A CHURCH MOMENTARILY. SPEAKING OF IMPORTANT THINGS OUT THERE, FATHER BRIAN MU LADY, AND GOOD FRIEND OF MOTHER ANGELICA AND THE DECALOGUE DECODED, BOOK AVAILABLE THROUGH THE ewtnRC.com. DON’T FORGET, ALSO, I WANT TO MENTION, I WANT TO THROW A PLUG IN. HE’S GOING TO BE FEATURED ON BOOK MARK. CHECK IT OUT THIS SUNDAY AS WELL! ANOTHER GREAT ANNOUNCEMENT, VERITAS RADIO, A NEW EWTN AFFILIATE IN CONNECTICUT. THERE ARE SOME GREAT PEOPLE THERE. GO ONLINE AND STEVE LEE AND HIS TEAM, HERE’S A CASE WHERE A GUY DECIDED ON HIS OWN. THIS IS WHAT HE WANTED IN HIS HOMETOWN, IN HIS MARKET PLACE. HE WENT AND DID IT. AND EWTN AND THE ENTIRE TEAM, JOSEMARIA ESCRIVA WERE VERY SUPPORTIVE AND IF YOU EVER HAVE AN INTEREST, CHECK OUT OUR WEB SITE ewtn.com FOR RADIO AND FIND OUT HOW YOU CAN GET A RADIO STATION STARTED IN YOUR PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD. NOW, IN DENVER, COMING UP IN JUST A MONTH, SATURDAY SEPTEMBER 21, A GREAT LINE NEWSPAPER DENVER. UNFORTUNATELY, FATHER SPITZER WON’T BE THERE BUT WE’LL HAVE FATHER MITCH PACWA AND THAT’S THE BEST WE CAN DO FOR JESUITS! SO, LET’S TURN OUT TO THE WEST AND SEE HOW FATHER SPITZER IS DOING.>>Father: HI, DOUG.>>LAST WEEK, WE WERE ABLE TO AIR THE SHOW WE DID AT THE NAPA EVENT WHICH YOU ARE PRESIDENT OF. HOPEFULLY PEOPLE DID ENJOY THAT AND IT WAS A LITTLE SOMETHING DIFFERENT. TODAY, WE’RE BACK INTO THE OLD GRIND! BEFORE WE GET STARTED, KICK THINGS OFF WITH A PRAYER.>>Father: SURE. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. HEAVENLY FATHER, WE ASK YOU TO BLESS AND GRACE DOUG, MYSELF AND OUR WHOLE AUDIENCE THIS DAY. SEND YOUR HOLY SPIRIT DOWN UPON US TO INSPIRE US, GUIDE US, AND PROTECT US SO THAT EVERYTHING WE DO AND SAY WILL BE BROUGHT TO FRUITION IN YOUR WILL FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR CHURCH, YOUR PEOPLE, YOUR KINGDOM, THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. AMEN. AND MARY, SEAT OF WISDOM AND SAINT PIUS X PRAY FOR US. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN.>>Doug: RIGHT. AND AGAIN, OUR TOPIC WE’LL GET INTO THE SECOND HALF OF THE PROGRAM HAS TO DO WITH A GOOD QUESTION. WHY DO WE NEED A CHURCH? UNFORTUNATELY, YOU WOULD THINK THAT’S A QUESTION WE WOULDN’T HAVE TO ANSWER. BUT SEEMS LIKE IT’S MORE OF A QUESTION AND CONCERN THAN PROBABLY WE EVER THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE. OBVIOUSLY, THERE’S A LOT OF OTHER THINGS IN THE NEWS, THINGS WITH CARDINAL PELL. PEOPLE CAN READ ABOUT THAT AND FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION OBVIOUSLY. ALSO, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT PLANNED PARENTHOOD, THEY WITHDREW FROM THE FEDERAL TITLE X FUNDING, CONSIDERING IT A BIG PRO LIFE WIN. AND WHEN I FIRST MET YOU, YOU AND CAMILLE PAUL WERE WORKING IN THE PRO LIFE AREA. WHAT’S YOUR TAKE ON THAT?>>Father: OBVIOUSLY, I’M ELATED! I CAN’T BELIEVE IT. THEY ARE GOING TO BE SCAMPERING NOW TO FIND ADDITIONAL FUNDING FROM OTHER SOURCES. HOPEFULLY THAT FUNDING IS GOING TO BE RESTRICTED SO THAT THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN INNOCENT CHILDREN KILLED WILL BE REDUCED. AND THE PROPAGANDA TO GET PEOPLE INTO THE CLINICS TO KILL THEIR OWN BABIES WILL BE SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED. AND MAYBE THE SALE OF INFANT BODY PARTS WILL BE SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED. WHAT’S NOT TO BE REJOICING IN. I THINK IT’S A GREAT VICTORY FOR LIFE, AND I THINK THE WHOLE PRO LIFE COMMUNITY IS ELATED. AS LONG AS IT CONTINUES TO LAST, I BELIEVE THERE’S GOING TO BE LASTING EFFECT. SO, YEAH, GREAT NEWS.>>Doug: AND IT GOES TO SHOW REALLY THAT A GRASS ROOT MOVEMENT LIKE THE PRO LIFE MOVEMENT CAN HAVE SUCH AN IMPACT. AND RECENTLY, WE HAD THAT WONDERFUL MOVIE, “UNPLANNED” WHICH IS A POWERFUL PRO LIFE FILM WITH ABBY JOHNSON. WE LOVE FOR YOU TO BUY IT THROUGH EWTN TO SUPPORT OUR WORK. BUT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, GET THAT MOVIE, BECAUSE IT’S JUST TERRIFIC, “UNPLANNED” AND IT’S, WHAT I THOUGHT WAS DONE WELL, IT DIDN’T PAINT PEOPLE IN THIS OVERTLY STARK BLACK AND WHITE. IT SHOWED THAT PEOPLE WHO MEAN WELL CAN GET CAUGHT UP IN DOING AWFUL THINGS.>>Father: ABSOLUTELY. AND IT’S A REALISTIC ACCOUNT OF WHAT’S GOING ON INSIDE OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD. UNFORTUNATELY, THINK THAT A LOT OF WELL-MEANING PEOPLE ARE BEING DRAGGED INTO A TERRIBLE TRAVESTY, AS TERRIBLE AND DARK AS IT CAN POSSIBLY GET.>>Doug: ABSOLUTELY. ANOTHER THING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT RECENTLY, A PUGH STUDY INDICATING THE LOW BELIEF AMONGST CATHOLICS AMONG MILLENNIALS AND HERE’S A QUESTION THAT DOVETAILED INTO THAT. SOMEBODY WROTE US AND SAID, EXTRAORDINARY MINISTER. DEAR FATHER, I AM A EUCHARISTIC MINISTER IN MY PARISH HERE IN AUSTRALIA. I TAKE HOLY COMMUNION TO RESIDENTS IN NURSING HOMES. MY MINISTRY INVOLVES SEEING CATHOLIC RESIDENTS ONLY. OVER TIME, IT SEEMS SOME PROTESTANTS HAVE STARTED COMING ALONG TO OUR MASSES AND/OR LITURGY SERVICE. IF I DON’T KNOW THE RESIDENT, I USUALLY ASK IF THEY ARE CATHOLIC BEFORE OUR LITURGY OR MASS, WHEN WE HAVE A PRIEST. I WANT TO MAKE SURE I ONLY GIVE COMMUNION TO THE CATHOLICS. SOME OF THESE NON-CATHOLICS HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR HOLY COMMUNION. THE PAID, PASTORAL CHAPLAIN WORKING TOLD ME THAT I WAS TO GIVE HOLY COMMUNION TO ANYONE WHO WANTED IT OR DON’T GIVE OUT HOLY COMMUNION. I WAS TOO SHOCKED. HOWEVER, I KNEW I WOULD NEVER DO THAT. I DECIDED NOT TO GO BACK TO THAT NURSING HOME. HAS ANYTHING CHANGED IN THE CHURCH THAT I AM NOT AWARE OF? IT SEEMS SOME OF MY FELLOW MINISTERS ARE NOT AVERSE TO GIVING HOLY COMMUNION TO NON-CATHOLICS. BY THE WAY, I LOVE YOUR SHOWS. MAY GOD BLESS YOU, VERONICA, BRISBANE, AUSTRALIA. THANK YOU, VERNONICA.>>WELL, VERONICA, NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO BE HONEST. IT’S VERY MUCH IN PLAY TODAY AND NO, WE DO NOT GIVE COMMUNION TO PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT BELIEVERS. IF THEY DON’T REALLY BELIEVE IN THE REAL PRESENCE OF JESUS IN THE HOLY EUCHARIST THEN AS ST. PAUL TEACHES AND THE CHURCH HAS CONSTANTLY HELD, IT’S AN UNWORTHY RECEPTION OF THE HOLY EUCHARIST. YOU ARE BASICALLY GIVING IT TO SOMEBODY WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE OR KNOW THAT THEY ARE BRINGING INTO THEMSELVES THE BODY SOUL DIVINITY OF JESUS AND YOU ABSOLUTELY DON’T WANT TO DO THAT. IT REALLY IS A TRAVESTY. AND THE PERSON WHO MAY BE RECEIVING IT MIGHT BE BLAMELESS BUT THE MINISTER DOING IT IS DOING SOMETHING WHICH IS FALSE ECUMENISM WHICH IS WORSE. AND THE SECOND THING TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHEN WE DO THAT, YOU SAY, WELL, MAYBE THEY DO BELIEVE IN THE REAL PRESENCE OF THE HOLY EUCHARIST. WELL, WHY WON’T THEY TAKE STEPS TO BECOME CATHOLIC? IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU REALLY KNEW THAT THIS WAS THE PRESENCE OF THE JESUS IN THE HOLY EUCHARIST AND THE ONLY WAY YOU REALLY GET THE REALLY-PRESENT JESUS IN THE HOLY EUCHARIST IS THROUGH AN ORDAINED MINISTER IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, TAKE STEPS TO BECOME PART OF THE CHURCH SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY RECEIVE THE HOLY EUCHARIST ON A WEEKLY BASIS. WHY WOULDN’T YOU WANT TO DO THAT? WHY RESTRICT IT TO A WEDDING OR TO, YOU KNOW, THE NURSING HOME, TRYING TO BECOME PART OF THE VERY COMMUNITY THROUGH WHICH YOU CAN ACTUALLY RECEIVE THAT, NOT ONLY ON A WEEKLY BASIS BUT ON A DAILY BASIS, THE REAL PRESENCE OF JESUS. THAT’S THE KEY THOUGHT. AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED, VERONICA, YOU HAVE DONE THE RIGHT THING. DON’T GO BACK TO THAT NURSING HOME. BY THE WAY, I DON’T THINK A NURSING HOME HAS THE RIGHT — AND I DON’T KNOW A THING ABOUT AUSTRALIAN LAW OR NURSING HOMES THERE BUT THAT JUST SOUNDS STRANGE BY ANY LEGAL STANDARD TO GIVE COMMUNION TO NON BELIEVERS AND AN UNJUST LAW IS NO LAW.>>AND THERE MAY BE OTHER THINGS WITH THE AUSTRALIAN LAW, YOU KNOW.>>Father: I WOULD CHIME IN BUT HERE YOU HAVE, CLEARLY THE FIRST WITNESS TO THE SO-CALLED EVENTS, RECANTS HIS TESTIMONY. THE SECOND WITNESS COMES ON BOARD TELLING A STORY THAT’S VERY MUCH LIKE A “ROLLING STONE” ARTICLE FROM A FEW YEARS BEFORE. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? YOU THINK THIS IS EVIDENCE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT NOT TO MENTION THE SITUATIONAL FACTS WHERE CARDINAL PELL IS THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF, YOU KNOW, ON SUPPOSEDLY 50 PEOPLE MOVING AROUND, HE’S GOING TO GROPE SOMEBODY IN THIS KIND OF AN ATMOSPHERE? AND ON TOP OF IT, THERE’S TESTIMONY THAT HE PROBABLY AT THE TIME INDICATED WAS AT THE WEST DOOR OF THE CATHEDRAL INSTEAD OF THE SACRISTY, SOMETHING VERY, VERY STRANGE IS GOING ON HERE AND ALL ADDS UP TO A CASE WHICH IS NOT PROFN CONCLUSIVELY TO BE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. I JUST CAN’T SEE HOW THE APPELLATE COURT CAME UP WITH A DECISION THAT THEY CAME UP WITH. I’M BAFFLED, SIMPLY BAFFLED. ALL I CAN TELL YOU, ACE HOPE IT GOES TO THE HIGH COURT THAT TRUE JUSTICE WILL BE DONE. THIS CASE HAS NOT BEEN PROVED BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. I DON’T THINK IT WOULD BE PASSING MUSTER IN THE AMERICAN COURT IN A MILLION YEARS. THAT’S WHERE WE ARE, I DON’T UNDERSTAND AUSTRALIAN LAW. MUST BE SOMETHING QUIRKY ABOUT IT, GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT? IS THAT THE DEAL? I DON’T KNOW.>>MAYBE THEY ADAPTED TO THE NAPOLEONIC CODE, I DON’T KNOW. BUT TOO, THINK THAT THE IDEA THAT THERE JUST GETS TO BE A CULTURAL THING THERE. AND PEOPLE IN OUR AUDIENCE REALIZE WE’VE DONE OUR HOLY HOURS FOR THOSE ABUSED. AND OBVIOUSLY, MCCAR RIBBING AND OTHERS WHO HAVE AUTOPSY OOPS DONE HORRIBLE THINGS AND DESERVE THAT. SO NOBODY IS NOT SAYING THAT THE REAL BAD GUYS SHOULDN’T BE TAKEN DOWN BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE NEED TO BE SURE WE’RE NOT CAUGHT UP WITH THROWING THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER.>>TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT. YOU DON’T WANT TO CONVICT AN INNOCENT PERSON AS A SCAPEGOAT IN A HIGH POSITION IN ORDER TO DO JUSTICE FOR ABUSED VICTIMS. YOU KNOW, THE END DOESN’T JUSTIFY THE MEANS. YOU CAN’T USE AN UNJUST MEANS TO GET TO A JUST END. OF COURSE, WE WANT TO HAVE A JUST, NOT ONLY ACCUSATION, BUT A JUST CONVICTION OF A REAL CRIMINAL. BUT IF YOU REALLY HAVE NOT PROVEN THE CASE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, WE SHOULD STILL GIVE THE BENEFIT TO THE ACCUSED. THAT’S THE AMERICAN SYSTEM. I’M NOT SURE ABOUT THE AUSTRALIAN SYSTEM. BUT YOU ARE RIGHT, DOUG, WE MUST KEEP THAT CAVEAT IN MIND, THE VICTIMS COME FIRST BUT NOT AT THE PRICE OF INJUSTICE.>>Doug: EXACTLY. ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I JUST THOUGHT OF, EUCHARISTIC MINISTER, EXTRAORDINARY AND IF CATHOLICS DON’T BELIEVE IN THE REAL PRESENCE MAYBE SOME OF THE EUCHARISTIC MINISTERS DON’T AND MAYBE SOME THEY ARE GIVING IT TO A PROTESTANT BACKGROUND DON’T UNDERSTAND IT AND THINK IT’S THE SAME CRACKER OR JUICE THAT THEY GET AT THEIR PARTICULAR CHURCH. AND THE OTHER THING, THERE’S AN ONUS ON THIS THING TO MAKE PEOPLE NOT FEEL BAD. AND THERE’S PRESSURE ON THAT TO MAKE THEM NOT FEEL BAD.>>WELL, THERE ARE NICE WAYS TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE REALLY BELIEVE HERE, THIS IS THE VERY BODY AND BLOOD OF JESUS THAT HE GAVE AT THE LAST SUPPER. AND THAT WAS PRESENT ON THE CROSS. HERE’S WHY WE BELIEVE THAT. AND JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, HONESTLY, YOU REALLY OUGHT TO BELONG TO THE CONGREGATION THAT REALLY HOLDS THIS TO BE THE TRUTH IF YOU WANT TO RECEIVE IT. AND WE JUST DON’T WANT TO PUT YOU INTO A SITUATION WHERE YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING. I KNOW YOU ARE DOING IT OUT OF A SENSE OF WANTING TO BE UNIFIED WITH THE LORD BUT YOU WANT TO DO THIS IN A AND ON A LEGITIMATE BASIS. MAYBE READ THE PASSAGE FROM ST. PAUL THAT JUST INDICATES THAT WE REALLY DO WANT TO BEAR THIS IN MIND WHEN WE ARE RECEIVING THE HOLY EUCHARIST. YOU BROUGHT UP THAT PUGH SURVEY AND WE TALKED ABOUT IT A FEW WEEKS AGO. IT IS BAFFLING THAT SUCH A LOW PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE REALLY DO BELIEVE IN THE REAL PRESENCE OF CHRIST. AND IT SHOWS THAT WE HAVE TO BETTER CATECHIZE PEOPLE. AND PART OF THE CATECHESIS IS TALKING ABOUT THE DOUBLE COLLAPSE OF TIME WHICH WE’VE TALKED ABOUT SEVERAL TIMES ON THIS PROGRAM. IT’S IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHAT WAS JESUS THINKING, WHAT DID HE INTEND, WHAT WAS HIS THOUGHT AT THE LAST SUPPER. WHAT WAS HIS THOUGHT ON THE CROSS IN TERMS OF GIVING HIS WHOLE SELF AWAY FROM THE WHOLE REDEMPTION OF ALL HUMANKIND. THAT’S THE FIRST THING. AND THE SECOND THING, WE OUGHT TO TAKE BETTER COGNIZANCE OF THESE EUCHARISTIC MIRACLES SOME OF WHICH ARE TRULY REMARKABLES. THE BUENOS AIRES MIRACLE, TO THIS DAY, I DON’T KNOW, I CAN’T IMAGINE HOW WE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THE SAMPLE. EVEN IF YOU WANTED TO PERPETRATE A FRAUD, AS IT WERE PERPETRATE THE FRAUD, AS IT WERE, TAKING THE WATER OUT OF THE GLASS AND REPLACE IT WITH A PIECE OF FLESH. WOULD YOU HAVE KNOWN AND WOULD IT HAVE FOLLOWED GETTING A PROLIFERATION OF THE UPPER WHITE CELLS IN THE UPPER VENTRICLE WALL OF THIS SAMPLE, BASICALLY, YOU WOULD HAVE FIRST OF ALL BASICALLY TORTURED THE PERSON A GOOD HALF HOUR BEFORE YOU KILLED THEM MAKING SURE YOU BEAT THEM SEVERELY AROUND THE CHEST. THEN, WHILE HE’S STILL ALIVE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO TRULY OPEN HIM UP, LITERALLY OPEN HIM UP AND CARVE OUT A CHUNK OF THE BEATING HEART IN ORDER FOR THE WHITE BLOOD CELLS TO DIE. OF COURSE, THAT WOULD KILL THE MAN. SO, ARE YOU SAYING IN ORDER TO DO THIS, THE CHURCH PERPETRATED, I MEAN, THE CHURCHMEN EVEN PERPETRATING THE FRAUD WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THE WHITE CELLS WOULD DIED AND WOULDN’T HAVE PENETRATED THE VENTRICLE WALL IF THE MAN HAD NOT BEEN TORTURED? EVEN IF YOU HAD KNOWN THAT, WOULD YOU HAVE REALLY GONE THROUGH THIS, BEAT UP A GUY, OPEN HIM UP WHILE HE’S STILL ALIVE, KILLED HIM BY TAKING OUT A CHUNK OF HIS BEATING HEART IN ORDER TO PERPETRATE A EUCHARISTIC FRAUD? I DON’T THINK SO. SO, IF THAT’S THE CASE, THEN WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE? THERE’S A REALLY PRETTY GOOD, SUBSTANTIATED CASE THAT YOU HAVE A PIECE OF AN UPPER VENTRICLE WALL, AB POSITIVE BLOOD TYPE, SAME AS ON THE SHROUD OF TURIN AND OTHER EUCHARISTIC MIRACLES AND AT THE SAME TIME HAVE THESE WHITE BLOOD CELLS PRESENT AND THIS IS EXAMINED BY THE OBJECTIVE PATHOLOGISTS AND PEOPLE WHO DIDN’T EVEN KNOW WHERE THE SAMPLES CAME FROM. AND I HAVE, LIKE I SAID, THE PATHOLOGY REPORT OF DOCTOR SUJIBI, IF YOU WANT TO READ THAT, I CAN SEND YOU THE LETTER SUMMARIZING THE PATHOLOGY REPORT. THINK WE NEED TO CATECHIZE PEOPLE. GOSH, THE EVIDENCE FOR THE EUCHARIST IS KIND OF OVERWHELMING!>>Doug: AND THINK IN AN ATTEMPT POST VATICAN II TO RAISE UP THE OTHER ASPECTS OF THE IMPORTANCE OF THE GOSPEL READING AND OTHER THINGS AND PARTICIPATION, BY RAISING IT UP, THEY ULTIMATELY LOWERED EVERYTHING. AND I THINK UNFORTUNATELY, IT IMPACTED THE REAL PRESENCE IN THE EUCHARIST. AND OTHER THINGS. THE OTHER THING, SINCE YOU ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THE SHROUD OF TURIN. WE HAVE SOMEBODY THAT ASKED US A QUESTION. FR. SPITZER, WHY DO THE IMAGES ON THE SHROUD OF TURIN LOOK AS THOUGH THEY WERE PROJECTED ONTO PERFECTLY FLAT X-RAY PLATES? WOULDN’T THERE BE SOME FOLDING OR CYLINDRICAL DISTORTION ON THE CLOTH SINCE IT WAS DRAPED OR WRAPPED AROUND THE BODY? WAS THE SHROUD STRETCHED OUT FLAT ABOVE AND BELOW THE BODY AT THE MOMENT OF THE SUPPOSED VUV EMISSION DURING THE RESURRECTION? YOURS TRULY, A JEWISH GUY IN KENTUCKY.>>Father: HEY, JEWISH GUY IN KENTUCKY! HERE’S THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. IT WAS MORE OR LESS STRAIGHTENED OUT. THAT IS CORRECT. IT’S FROM THE TIP OF THE HEAD DOWN TO THE FOOT. FAIRLY STRAIGHT. AND THIS IS, BY THE WAY, IF YOU WANT THE ARTICLES ON THIS, SEVERAL ARTICLES ON THIS, SHROUD.COM BY JOHN JACKSON. HE EXPLAINS THE WAY THAT THIS CAN BE DONE — AND FIRST OF ALL, BY THE WAY, IT’S A THREE DIMENSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHIC IMAGE SO IT ALSO PENETRATES THE BODY SOMEWHAT, OR IF I CAN PUT IT THIS WAY, THE INSIDE OF THE BODY HAS TO BE EXPOSED AS WELL. SO, JACKSON THEORIZED THAT THIS CAN BE EXPLAINED BY THE SHROUD BEING STRAIGHT WHICH IS NOT UNUSUAL, BEING JEWISH YOURSELF, IT WAS NOT AN UNUSUAL CUSTOM FOR THE SHROUD TO BE STRAIGHT DOWN FROM THE HEAD TO THE FOOT. ESSENTIALLY IT WAS FLAT AND WOULD YOU HAVE HAD THE 6 TO 8 BILLION WATTS OF VACUUM ULTRAVIOLET ENERGY. AND BY THE WAY, THERE’S A REASON FOR THE VACUUM ULTRAVIOLET ENERGY AND THERE’S YOU KNOW, A BILLIONTH OF A SECOND AND IT’S BY A LASER, IF HAVE YOU A STRAIGHT SURFACE LIKE YOU HAVE WITH RESPECT TO THE BODY, ESSENTIALLY IF THE SHROUD REMAINED FLAT, IT PASSED THROUGH AS A FLAT BODY INTO THE — A FLAT OBJECT INTO THE BODY. AND IF IT BECAME MECHANICALLY TRANSPARENT AS A WHOLE, YOU WOULD HAVE A COMPLETE EXPLANATION WITHOUT DISTORTIONS ALONG THE CURVATURE OF THE BODY OR THE SURFACE OF THE BODY. THAT’S THE ANSWER. IT’S A GREAT QUESTION AND NOT UNUSUAL IN JEWISH CUSTOM FOR THE SHROUD TO BE FLAT. VACUUM ULTRAVIOLET ENERGY AND.>>Doug: AND YOU SAID THAT HAPPENED IN ONE BILLIONTH AFTER SECOND? IF SOMEBODY WAS THERE TO SEE IT, WHAT WOULD IT HAVE LOOKED LIKE IF SOMEBODY WAS THERE. SAY IF SOMEBODY WAS THERE, IS IT SOMETHING THAT SOMEBODY COULD HAVE ACTUALLY PERCEIVED.>>Father: OH, YEAH, NOT ONLY WOULD THEY HAVE PERCEIVED IT, BUT FOR SURE WOULD HAVE BLINDED THEM. YOU CAN’T GET THE EFFECT OF ONE MILLION SEARCH LIGHT ENERGY STRAIGHT ON IF YOU WERE JUST SITTING THERE IN THE TOMB. YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY BLINDED FOR LIFE. NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SO BRIGHT EVEN AT A SHORT INTERVAL, IT WOULD HAVE BLINDED AND YOUR RETINA WOULD BE BURNED OUT, THE NERVE DAMAGE WOULD HAVE BEEN OVERWHELMING. IN ANY CASE, YEAH, YOU WOULDN’T HAVE WANTED TO BE A WITNESS TO THAT! A LITTLE TOO BRIGHT. AND IN FACT, MY THOUGHT IS, NEVER LOOK AT A MILLION SEARCH LIGHTS POINTED AT A SINGLE SPOT FOR MORE THAN A 60 BILLIONTH OF A SECOND! [LAUGHTER]>>Doug: THERE YOU GO. IS THAT YOUR PEARL HARBOR BACKGROUND.>>Father: YEAH, THAT’S MY PEARL HARBOR BACKGROUND.>>Doug: OKAY. HERE’S ANOTHER QUESTION FOR YOU. DEAR DOUG, FOR YEARS, ATHEISTS HAVE BEEN TELLING US THAT THE EXPLANATION FOR OUR PERFECTLY BALANCED UNIVERSE IS NOT THAT A CARING GOD CREATED IT, BUT RATHER THAT IT IS MERELY THE LUCKY ONE OUT OF AN INFINITE NUMBER OF IMPERFECTLY BALANCED UNIVERSES. BUILT NEAR GENEVA MORE THAN A DECADE AGO, A PARTICLE ACCELERATOR CALLED THE LARGE HADRON COLLIDER WAS DESIGNED LARGELY TO CONFIRM THE EXISTENCE OF THIS MULTIVERSE BY PROVING THAT SUPER-SYMMETRY WAS REAL. BUT IT IS NOT FINDING EVIDENCE FOR SUPER-SYMMETRY. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR SCIENTISTS, ATHEISTS, AND BELIEVERS? FATHER SPITZER IS THE ONLY FAIR MINDED PERSON OF WHOM I’M AWARE, WHO IS QUALIFIED TO ANSWER IT. LOVE YOUR SHOW! PETE.>>Father: OKAY. PETE READ SOME GOOD ARTICLES ON THIS BY A FELLA DOCTOR STEPHEN BARR, UNIVERSITY OF HARDWARE STARTED THE SOCIETY FOR CATHOLIC SCIENTISTS AND HAS WRITTEN A BOOK CALLED MODERN PHYSICS AND ANCIENT FAITH BY NOTRE DAME UNIVERSITY PRESS. AND THE KEY POINT TO LOOK AT, TWO MAIN POINTS ACTUALLY TO LOOK AT. FIRST OF ALL, MULTI-VERSE IS NOT ONLY BEING NOT PROVED BY SUPER SYMMETRY EXPERTS BUT THE MULTI-VERSE IS COMING INTO A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT PROBLEMS. THEY ARE CALLED BOLTZMANN BRAINS AND REEF BRAINS. [PHONETIC] HERE’S THE PROBLEM, AND YOU MAY HAVE HEARD ME SAY THIS BEFORE, THE ODDS OF HAVING THIS IS CALCULATED BY DOCTOR PENROSE, ROGER PENROSE, 10 RAYS TO THE 1/23 GENS. AND THAT’S LIKE THE ODDS OF A MONKEY TYPING SHAKESPEARE ON A TYPEWRITER, THE HITTING OF THE RANDOM KEYS IN A FIRST TRY. AND IN OTHER WORDS, MONKEYS CANNOT DO THAT AND IT’S A VIRTUAL IMPOSSIBILITY. IF THAT’S THE CASE, THEN WE GOT A LOT OF EXPLAINING TO DO. AND SOME PEOPLE HAVE SORT OF SAID, OKAY. MAYBE THIS CAN BE EXPLAINED BY YOU KNOW, A MULTI-VERSE. EXCEPT FOR THE MULTI-VERSE THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DO THIS, IN THAT MULTI-VERSE GIVING RISE TO A LOW ENTROPY OF THE UNIVERSE, THE ODDS OF A BOLTZMANN BRAIN HAPPENING, THAT’S TO SAY POSTULATED BY LUDWIG THEORY BASICALLY A BRAIN COMING OUT OF A VACUUM AND THE ODDS OF THAT, ME BEING A BRAIN THAT POPS INTO EXISTENCE FULLY LOADED WITH THE UNIVERSE AROUND ME IN MY IMAGINATION AND ALL OF THE PEOPLE AROUND ME IN MY IMAGINATION, AND THE ODDS OF HAVING THIS WOULD BE FAR FAR GREATER THAN THAT. AND FRANKLY, IF YOU BELIEVE IN A MULTI-VERSE THAT CAN GIVE RISE TO THIS, THE ODDS ARE THAT THAT MULTI-VERSE WOULD HAVE GENERATED BOLTZMANN BRAINS LIKE OURSELVES WAY BEFORE IT WOULD HAVE GENERATED OUR UNIVERSE. IF THAT’S THE CASE, YOU AND I, MY FRIEND, WE’RE BOLTZMANN BRAINS AND NOT IN THE UNIVERSE AT ALL. SO, I HAVE TO SAY I BELIEVE THAT WE ARE NOT BOLTZMANN BRAINS. AND SOME PEOPLE TRY TO GET AROUND THE THERMAL PROBLEM AND MAYBE POSTULATING GETTING OUT OF THIS. AND THEN THERE’S A PROBLEM OF BRIEF BRAINS WHICH I WON’T EXPLAIN IT TO YOU NOW BUT IF YOU WANT AN ARTICLE EXPLAINING IT TO YOU IN SOME DETAIL, I WROTE AN ARTICLE IN A BOOK CALLED THEISM AND ATHEISM OPPOSING PHILOSOPHICAL ARGUMENTS IN MCMILLAN REFERENCE. AND IN THE TENTH ARTICLE CALLED THEISM, OUR UNIVERSE, I WROTE AN ARTICLE WITH JAMES SINCLAIR CALLED FINE TUNING AND INDICATIONS OF TRANSCENDENT INTELLIGENCE. IF YOU LOOK AT THAT, THE ENTIRE SECTION 5 OF THAT ARTICLE AND SECTION 6 OF THAT ARTICLE ARE ALL ABOUT BOLTZMANN BRAINS, BRIEF BRAINS AND THE INTRACTABILITY OF WHAT’S CALLED THE MEASUREMENT PROBLEM. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THE MULTI-VERSE IS A VERY, VERY IMPROBABLE SOLUTION SO NOT JUST THE SUPER SYMMETRY IT’S THE OTHER ONES I MENTIONED. AND ALSO, THE MEASUREMENT PROBLEM. AND FURTHER, I EXPLAIN THE MEASUREMENT PROBLEM IN THERE. THERE ARE OTHER PROBLEMS WITH IT — EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE MULTI-VERSE HYPOTHESIS THAT HAVE BEEN CONJECTURED UP THIS TO POINT REQUIRE MANY, MANY POINTS OF FINE TUNING AND IN CONSTANT FOR THE MULTI-VERSE. FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, THE MULTI-VERSE DOESN’T GET US OUT OF THE PROBLEM AT ALL. IT’S A VERY, VERY IMPROBABLE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM OF FINE TUNING AND I SAY, TRYING TO MAKE RECOURSE TO IT AS I SAY IN THE ARTICLE, VERY TECHNICALLY DEVELOPED LIKE SOMEBODY LIKE YOURSELF, NOT A PROPER SOLUTION. AND THE BEST SOLUTION, THERE’S SOME FORM OF TRANSCENDENT INTELLIGENCE. IF YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE TEG MARKS LEVEL 4, I HANDLE THAT IN THAT ARTICLE, MCMILLAN REFERENCE AND PEER REVIEWED BOOK. THERE, YOU CAN GET THE FULL DEAL.>>I THINK WE HAVE THE BRAIN FROM PLANET SPITZER HERE. YOU ARE DOING QUITE WELL AND I DON’T THINK WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. AND WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK. AND I CAN REST MY BRAIN. WE’LL BE RIGHT BACK TO TALK MORE ABOUT THE CHURCH AND WHY WE NEED A CHURCH. DO WE? MORE STRAIGHT AHEAD. STAY WITH US! [MUSIC] [MUSIC]>>NOW, THANKS FOR REJOINING US RIGHT HERE ON FATHER SPITZER AND WE’RE TALKING TO FATHER SPITZER FROM THE EAST COAST ORANGE COUNTY STUDIOS AND LET’S TURN TO FATHER SPITZER RELATED TO THE CHURCH BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT WHY OR IF WE ACTUALLY NEED A CHURCH. FIRST QUESTION CAME AS, WHAT IS THE CHURCH’S OPINION/TEACHING ON THE POTENTIAL FOR A RAPTURE? I FEEL AS THOUGH OUR CULTURE AND WORLD IS EXPERIENCING WHAT ONE MIGHT CALL THE RAPTURE, CONSIDERING ALL THE VIOLENCE AND EVIL, ABORTIONS, ET CETERA. THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE. PAX, ERICH. KIND OF A DIFFERENT WORD OF THE USE OF RAPTURE THAN WHAT PROTESTANTS THINK ABOUT THE WORD RAPTURE.>>Father: WELL, IF YOU MEAN BY RAPTURE THAT THERE’S GOING TO BE A MOMENT BEFORE THE ACTUAL ESCHATON WHERE PEOPLE ARE SIMPLY TAKEN OUT OF THE WORLD IN A RAPTURE AND EVERYBODY ELSE, WHO IS SORT OF GUILTY OF SIN IS GOING TO BE LEFT BEHIND, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, THERE’S NOT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE OF THIS IN JESUS ESCHATOLOGICAL DISCOURSES AND IT’S A MISREADING OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION. AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS A, NEVER SUBSCRIBED OR ADHERED TO THIS IN ANY WAY. WE DON’T BELIEVE IN A RAPTURE. NOW, OF COURSE, I SEE YOUR POINT, YEAH, YOU MAY THINK THERE’S SO MANY TERRIBLE THINGS GOING ON, MAYBE IT’S THE JUST THING TO DO, TAKE PEOPLE OUT OF THIS WORLD AND LET THE GUILTY.>>OR THE END TIMES ARE COMING, IF WE’RE ENTERING THE END TIMES.>>WELL, IF THAT’S WHAT YOU MEAN, ENTERING THE END TIMES. WELL, OKAY, MAYBE WE ARE ENTERING THE END TIMES BUT DO REMEMBER WHAT JESUS CAUTIONED IN ALL OF THE GOSPEL. YOU KNOW NOT THE DAY NOR THE HOUR, NOT EVEN THE SON OF MAN KNOWS WHEN THIS IS GOING TO OCCUR. SO, I DON’T THINK SO WE’RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PREDICT THIS FROM THE BOOK OF REVELATION OR FROM OUR OWN INTERNAL SPECULATION OR FROM SOME PERSON HAVING A PROPHETIC MOMENT WHO BASICALLY SAYS, I HAVE TO SENSE THE RAPTURE WAS COMING. IF JESUS DIDN’T, THEN I CAN ASSURE YOU, THIS NEW PROPHET ISN’T GOING TO HAVE THIS EITHER. SO, STAY AWAY FROM RAPTURE TALKS. STAY AWAY FROM RAPTURE THINK. BASICALLY, KEEP YOUR NOSE TO THE GRINDSTONE AND KEEP TRYING TO BECOME HOLIER AND HOLIER BY THE DAY WITHIN YOUR OWN MEANS AND COMPASSION AND LOVE THAT JESUS PRESCRIBED. ALSO, TRY TO KEEP YOURSELF WITHIN THE CHURCH AND THE SACRAMENTS AVAILING YOURSELF OF CONFESSION, RECONCILIATION AND THE HOLY EUCHARIST. THINK YOU ARE GOING TO BE JUST FINE DOING THAT. DON’T THINK ABOUT THE REST.>>Doug: AND BESIDES, THE END TIMES OR RAPTURE MAY HAPPEN AT ANY MOMENT. AND OUR LORD IS TELLING YOU, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ENOUGH OIL FOR YOUR LAMP THERE SO WHEN YOU ARE CALLED, YOU ARE ALLOWED IN.>>Father: CORRECT, YES.>>Doug: AND HERE’S ANOTHER QUESTION THAT WE CAN GET TO QUICKLY. WHAT DOES THE CHURCH TEACH ABOUT THE ANTICHRIST? WILL IT BE A PERSON, A MOVEMENT, OR BOTH PERHAPS? THANK YOU, PAULA. AND THIS MAY BE TIED INTO SOME OF THE CONCERN WATCHING THE CRAZINESS GOING ON IN THE UNIVERSE AS WE SPEAK.>>Father: THAT’S RIGHT. WELL, THE CHURCH DOESN’T HAVE AN EXPLICIT TEACHING ON THE ANTI-CHRIST EXCEPT TO SAY THERE’S SOME KIND OF DIABOLICAL FIGURE THAT WILL HAVE A KIND OF CONTROL OR REMARKABLE DOMINATING POWER WITHIN THE WORLD. HE WILL BE OBVIOUSLY, AS THE NAME SUGGESTS OPPOSED TO JESUS CHRIST AND HIS DOCTRINE AND WILL BE EXCEEDINGLY CONVINCING. NOW, DO WE KNOW THAT’S A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL? NO. A GROUP? NO. WHAT GROUP IT MIGHT BE CONSTITUTED IN IT? NO. DO WE KNOW A TIME? NO. WE JUST DON’T KNOW. ARE THERE SOME THINGS SOMETIMES YOU LOOK AT IT AND YOU SAY, OH, THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE ANTI-CHRIST. THERE MAY BE SOME TIMES WHEN YOU ARE TEMPTED TO THINK THAT. AND JESUS SAYS, WE WOULD HAVE NO DOUBT, CHRISTIANS WHO SUBSCRIBE AND ADHERE IN OBEDIENCE TO WHAT HE’S SAYING, THEY HAVE NO DOUBT WHEN THAT ANTI-CHRIST WAS COMING AND THAT IT WOULD BE ASSOCIATED WITH CERTAIN SIGNS. THINK THAT HAS NOT YET HAPPENED. SO, I’M GOING TO KIND OF GET OUT THERE AND SAY, I DON’T THINK THE ANTI-CHRIST IS HERE AND I’M NOT THE JUDGE OR THE HOLIEST ONE IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD. I HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO AND THE ONE THING THAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS THAT IT HASN’T GOTTEN THAT BAD YET. BUT I THINK, BOY, THERE ARE SOME INDICATIONS THAT SEEM TO SUGGESTION THAT WE’RE GOING BEYOND BRAVE NEW WORLD AND WE’RE GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE, YOU KNOW, AS THEY SAY, THE BRAVE NEW, BUT EVIL AND DARK KINGDOM IS COMING UPON US LIKE TOLKIEN’S SHADOW COMING OVER MIDDLE EARTH. AND I BEGIN TO SEE THAT. AND YOU CAN ALMOST SENSE SARON’S FORCES GATHERING STRENGTH AND MORDOR, I HATE TO USE THE MYTHOLOGICAL TERMINOLOGY BUT THAT’S WHAT IT FEELS LIKE. THERE WILL BE SOMETHING UNUSUAL, YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY SENSE BUT SOMETHING, A SHADOW AND THE DARKNESS TO SHOW US THERE IS TRULY SOMETHING, WHAT C.S. LEWIS CALLED THAT HIDEOUS STRENGTH THAT’S BEGINNING TO BECOME STRONGER AND STRONGER. AND I DO FEEL THAT SHADOW IN THE WORLD TODAY. I DON’T THINK THAT THE FULL MANIFESTATION OF THAT EVIL IS HERE. BUT IT WILL BE HERE. AND JESUS INDICATES IT. SO, WE HAVE TO BEWARE.>>SO PRAY THE ROSARY AND PUT OUR LADY IN THE FRONT LINE THERE WHERE SHE NEEDS TO BE. AND IT’S INTERESTING WITH THAT TOO. AND SOMETIMES WHEN PEOPLE THINK ANTI-CHRIST, THEY THINK OPPOSING CHRIST AS OPPOSED TO THE IDEA OF ANTI-CHRIST BEING ANOTHER CHRIST OR SOMEONE WHO DOESN’T, NOT LIKE THIS EVIL TERRIBLE PERSON BUT WHEN SOMEBODY IN A SENSE MAY PORTRAY THEMSELVES IN A POSITIVE LIFE BUT TEACHES ANOTHER GOSPEL.>>WELL, THAT COULD BE THE ANTI-CHRIST AS WELL. BUT REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE ANTI-CHRIST COMES, HE WILL DECEIVE MANY PEOPLE, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. I’M SURE THAT HE WILL POSE HIMSELF AS A VERY NICE PERSON BECAUSE THAT IS THE DEVIL’S WHOLE APPROACH. I’M HERE TO MAKE YOU HAPPY. I’M HERE TO GIVE YOU FULFILLMENT AND SELF COMPLETION. I’M JUST HERE, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THERE’S A MOVIE CALLED “THE DEVIL’S ADVOCATE,” AND IT HAS SOME LANGUAGE IN IT AND PROBABLY WE WOULDN’T WANT TO BE CITING THIS. BUT I CAN TELL YOU ONE THING. THERE’S ONE ANYTHING THERE WHERE AL PACINO PORTRAYING THE DEVIL SAYS, I’M A FRIEND OF MAN, A FRIEND OF HUMAN NATURE. YOU ARE UNJUSTLY ACCUSING ME. LOOK AT ALL OF THE THINGS I’VE DONE TO HELP YOU OUT. THAT’S THE LINE THAT HE’S GOING TO COME WITH. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. BUT LURKING AROUND THE BACK OF IT IS WHAT THE UNWITTING VICTIM IN THE DEVIL’S ADVOCATE, HE’S BEGINNING TO SEE, THERE’S SOMETHING TERRIBLY STRANGE GOING ON HERE, THAT EVERY PROMISE HAS A DARK SIDE TO IT. SO, WHEN HE IS SUCKED INTO THE REAL MANIFESTATION OF THE EVIL BEHIND IT ALL, THEN HE BEGINS TO REJECT IT.>>Doug: WELL, LET’S TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS IS INTRODUCTION OF PART 2 OF THE CATECHISM AND THIS VOLUME HAS TO DO WITH, FROM crediblecatholic.com AND PEOPLE CAN FOLLOW ALONG. WHY DO WE NEED A CHURCH. YOU SAY IN THE BEGINNING, IN THIS CULTURE WE MAY NO LONGER ASSUME OR EVEN ADULTS UNDERSTANDING THE NEED FOR CHURCH, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, THE ONE TRUE CHURCH FOUNDED UNDER THE SEE OF PETER. AND THEN MOVES ALONG AND TALKS ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS SUCH A PROBLEM TODAY OR SUCH A NEW PROBLEM?>>Father: WELL, IT’S A PROBLEM AMONGST YOUNG PEOPLE BECAUSE REMEMBER, INDIVIDUAL AUTONOMY AMONGST YOUNG PEOPLE HAS BEEN RAISED TO A WHOLE NEW LEVEL. SOCIAL MEDIA, PORTRAYAL OF YOURSELF ON FACEBOOK, ET CETERA. CERTAINLY, THERE IS A PROCLIVITY TO HAVE AN EXTREME SENSE OF AUTONOMY. THERE COMES THE FALSE BELIEF THAT I CAN FIND MY WAY TO TRANSCENDENCE ON MY OWN. THIS GOES BACK TO THE TIME OF ST. AUGUSTINE. AND REMEMBER, POOR OLE ST. AUGUSTINE IS TRYING TO GET TO GOD ALL BY HIMSELF. PERFECT LOVE TRUTH GOODNESS BEAUTY AND HOME. AND ALL OF THE SECTS OF THE MANACHI SECT, HE’S TRYING TO GET THERE. BUT AUGUSTINE MAKES IT THROUGH HIS ASTUTENESS THAT PEOPLE, YOUNG PEOPLE ON SOCIAL MEDIA DO NOT, AND WHAT IS IT THAT HE DISCOVERS? I CAN’T GET THERE ON MY OWN. I CAN’T BRIDGE THE GAP BETWEEN MY IMPERFECT TRUTH AND PERFECT TRUTH. AND BETWEEN MY IMPERFECT LOVE AND PERFECT LOVE, I CAN’T GET TO PERFECT GOODNESS AND FAIRNESS THROUGH MY IMPERFECT GOODNESS AND FAIRNESS. I CAN’T BRIDGE THE INFINITE GAP BETWEEN MY FINITUDE AND INFINITY AND RESTRICTED NATURE. I’M POWERLESS. I’VE GOTTEN TO THE TOP OF THE SUMMIT WITH AN IMMENSE CHASM BETWEEN ME AND THE OTHER SIDE. I CAN’T GET FROM THERE TO THERE. AND AUGUSTINE DISCOVERS IT. AND HE THROWS HIS ARMS UP. AND AMBROSE COMES TO HIM AND SAYS, AUGUSTINE, YOU HAVE MADE A MISTAKE. HE SAYS, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN’T GET THERE BY YOURSELF. THE FINITE CAN’T BRIDGE THE GAP TO THE INFINITE. THE IMPERFECT CAN’T BRIDGE THE GAP TO THE PERFECT. YOU NEED GOD WITH US, YOU NEED EMMANUEL, JESUS CHRIST, YOU NEED THE GOD-MAN, THE SON OF GOD WHO HAS COME TO BE WITH US. YOU ARE GOING TO NEED HIM TO BRING YOU OVER THE CHASM. HE’S ON THE OTHER SIDE, HE CAN BUILD THE BRIDGE FOR YOU TO GET OVER. YOU CAN’T DO IT BY YOURSELF. AND FINALLY, ST. AUGUSTINE MAKES THE DISCOVERY. NOW, OUR KIDS TODAY, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, UNFORTUNATELY, NONE OF THEM IS DOING THIS INTENTIONALLY. THEY REALLY DO BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN, AS IT WERE, TO COMMUNICATE WITH GOD INDIVIDUALLY IN A SORT OF SPIRITUAL WAY AND THEY CAN SORT OF CROSS THE CHASM WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM JESUS. THEY CAN SORT OF PRAY TO WHAT WE CALL AN UNKNOWN, UNREFINED DEITY. AND YOU KNOW, OF COURSE, THE DEITY WILL COME TO THEM IN THEIR PRAYER. BUT TO TRY TO DO THIS BLINDLY IS A VERY BIG MISTAKE BECAUSE AS YOU ALREADY PUT IT, DOUG, THERE’S A PLETHORA OF OTHER POSSIBLE RIVAL VIEWPOINTS ABOUT WHO GOD IS, WHAT GOODNESS IS AND EVEN WHAT SALVATION IS, WHAT PROVIDENCE IS, WHETHER GOD ANSWERS PRAYERS. THERE’S JUST A GAZILLION OTHER POSSIBILITIES BESIDES THE TRUTH GIVEN TO US BY JESUS CHRIST. HOW WILL ANYONE BLINDLY KNOW WHERE TO GO WHEN THEY ARE CONFRONTED BY THIS PLETHORA OF POSSIBILITIES AMONGST WHICH JESUS IS BUT ONE. AND HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO THIS WITHOUT SOME SENSE AFTER GUIDING FORCE, LIKE, THE CHURCH THAT WILL COME AND GIVE US AN INTERPRETATION OF WHAT JESUS SAID AND WHAT HE DID. WILL GIVE AND ADMINISTRATE THE SACRAMENTS THAT JESUS BESTOWED UPON HIS APOSTLES AND THE SUCCESSORS OF THE APOSTLES. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO THIS BLINDLY? I MEAN, I KNOW ALL ABOUT BLINDNESS. IT DOESN’T WORK. EVERYBODY NEEDS A GUIDE. AND THE CHURCH THAT WE HAVE WITH US TODAY IS THAT GUIDE. IT’S THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, THE CHURCH STARTED BY JESUS CHRIST. SO, THE POINT THAT I’M TRYING TO GET TO, THERE’S A MISNOMER THAT SPIRITUALITY ALONE WILL DO THE TRICK. SPIRITUALITY ALONE, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I MEAN, I CAN TELL YOU, IF I DIDN’T HAVE THE ROSARY, IF I DIDN’T HAVE THE DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCH. IF I DIDN’T HAVE THE ADVICE OF THE SAINTS, LIKE ST. IGNATIUS OF LOYOLA TO GUIDE ME IN MY SPIRITUAL LIFE, I COULD BE SITTING THERE PRAYING, MAYBE SOME PRAYERS OF PETITION, LIKE, MAYBE, HELP ME. I COULD DO THAT. AND I KNOW THAT GOD WOULD RESPOND IN SOME WAY TO HELP ME. BUT IF WE DON’T KNOW HOW TO RESPOND TO HIS RESPONSE, HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET THERE, AS ST. AUGUSTINE WOULD SAY. HOW DO WE GET THERE? SO, WE HAVE A REAL PROBLEM FROM THE GET-GO. WE CAN’T BE OUR OWN GUIDES BECAUSE WE’RE BLIND GUIDES. THAT’S THE FIRST PROBLEM. NOW, THE SECOND PROBLEM. WE NEED SACRAMENTS! HONESTLY, JESUS HAS GIVEN US HIS REAL BODY AND BLOOD IN THE HOLY EUCHARIST. HE’S GIVEN HIS APOSTLES THE POWER TO FORGIVE SINS TO DEFINITIVELY ABSOLVE THEM THROUGH THE SACRAMENT OF RECONCILIATION. WHY WOULDN’T WE WANT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF SACRAMENTAL GRACE ADMINISTRATE HAD THROUGH THE CHURCH WITH AN EXTERNAL SIGN. YOU ETHNIC YOU CAN DREAM THIS UP? YOU CAN’T DREAM THIS UP. I TRIED. I WAS THE IMAGINATIVE TEENAGER, THE IMAGINATIVE COLLEGE STUDENT WHO WENT NOWHERE. I WAS NOT NEARLY AS BRILLIANT AS ST. AUGUSTINE WHO WENT DOUBLY NOWHERE. I NEEDED THE CHURCH AND I NEEDED THAT. NUMBER THREE WE NEEDED THE COMMUNITY. AND NOT ONLY DO WE NEED THE TRUTH OF THE CHURCH GIVEN TO US THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, WE NOT ONLY NEED THE SACRAMENTS, WE NEED THE COMMUNITY THAT SUPPORTS US. THE COMMUNITY THROUGH WHOM AND WITH WHOM WE PRAY. HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT AUTONOMOUS CREATURES. WE’RE INTERPERSONAL PERSONS BY OUR VERY NATURE. AND NO MAN IS AN ISLAND AS JOHN DUNN SAID, GREAT POET JOHN DUNN. EVERY BIT OF THE MAIN IS PART OF US. AND WE’RE PART OF THE MAIN. WE’RE PART OF THE MYSTICAL BODY. WE NEED THE OUTWARD EXPRESSION OF THE CHURCH COMMUNITY TO PRAY WITH THEM, TO PRAY THROUGH THEM, TO TALK WITH THEM. TO REINFORCE THEIR, OUR FAITH WITH THEM. WE ARE BEINGS WITH. AND WE ARE NOT BEINGS IN ITSELF. SO, WE’RE BEINGS WITH OTHERS, INTERPERSONAL BEINGS. JUST ON THE FACE OF IT, WE HAVE TO BE IMMERSED AND NOT ONLY IN A COMMUNITY OF TRUTH AND COMMUNITY OF SACRAMENT, NOT ONLY IN A COMMUNITY OF MORALS BUT ALSO IN A COMMUNITY, EXTERNAL COMMUNITY THAT REINFORCES US IN OUR PRAYER THAT REINFORCES US, YOU KNOW, IN OUR LIVED FAITH WHERE WE CAN SHARE OUR FAITH AND TALK ABOUT OUR THEOLOGICAL IDEAS AND BRING OUR ROAD INTO SALVATION AND THEIR SALVATION AND VICE VERSA. JUST FOR THOSE THREE REASONS ALONE. WITHOUT A CHURCH COMMUNITY, WE ARE BEREFT, OUR OWN BLIND GUIDES. SO, YOU JUST DON’T WANT TO ENDEAVOR THIS BECAUSE IT GOES NOWHERE. WE ALWAYS WOULD WIND UP AS ST. AUGUSTINE WOUND UP, AS I WOUND UP IN COLLEGE JUST GOING, THIS IS NOT HAPPENING! I NEED THE CHURCH ONE WOULD BE THE IDEA WHY IT SEEMS TO BE, WHEN IT COMES TO SPIRITUALITY FOR THEM BEING THE POPE OF THEIR OWN CHURCH, THE IDEA OF BEING IN A SENSE, LIKE, I HAVE THIS AUTONOMY WHEN IT COMES TO A CHURCH THING. YET, WHEN IT COMES TO SOCIAL STRUCTURES AND OTHER THINGS, THERE’S THIS COMMUNITARIAN KIND OF SENSE THAT THEY ADOPT, WHY IS THERE SUCH A DISTINCTION WHEN IT COMES TO YOUNG PEOPLE?>>Father: BECAUSE I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN DECEIVED BY A CULTURE THAT WANTS THEM TO BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN BE REALLY AUTONOMOUS WITH RESPECT TO RELIGION AND SPIRITUALITY. BUT THEY CAN’T BE AUTONOMOUS IN RESPECT TO OTHER COMMUNITIES, WHAT WE CALL IMMINENT THAN RATHER A DOMAIN. AND IT’S THE CULTURE. UNFORTUNATELY, THE KIDS DON’T SEE THAT THE CULTURE IS ANTI-TRANSCENDENT. IT’S THERE, AND IT’S THERE IMPLICITLY AND ESPECIALLY IN THE OMISSION OF DATA AND THE MOST UNDERREPORTED ARTICLES. AS I SAY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO SEE HOW ANTI-TRANSCENDENT AND ANTI-CHRIST THE CULTURE IS, TRY THIS OUT FOR AN EXAMPLE. NOW, THIS FRENCH RESEARCHER, TRISTIN CASABLANCA COMES AND SHOWS THAT THE RAW DATA OF SHROUD OF TURIN, IN 1988, IS COMPLETELY INVALID. THERE ARE TOO MANY MIXTURES, TOO MUCH STRATIFICATION, VARIATION OF THE DATA. AND ESSENTIALLY SHOWS THAT IT DIDN’T COME FROM A SINGLE CLOTH THAT CAME FROM A SINGLE PERIOD OF TIME. NOW, IMAGINE GETTING NEWS LIKE THIS AT THIS 1988 CARBON DATING THAT WAS HERALDED WHEN IT CAME OUT! IT WAS IN EVERY NEWSPAPER THAT YOU COULD POSSIBLE GET TODAY. GO AHEAD AND LOOK ON GOOGLE SEARCH. LOOK ON YOUR YAHOO SEVERANCE OR WHEREVER, GO AHEAD. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO FIND IT ANYWHERE! IT’S THE MOST UNDERREPORTING THING THAT YOU HAVE EVER SEEN IN YOUR WHOLE LIFE. YET, IT’S A BOMBSHELL IN TERMS OF THE CHRISTIAN RELIC. OF COURSE, THOUGH, THERE’S JUST AS MUCH ERRORS OF OMISSION AS COMMISSION AND INDEED JUST AS MANY SINCE OF COMMISSION AS OMISSION. AND PEOPLE WHO MANIPULATE THE DATA AND COVERTLY TRY TO UNDERMINE TRANSCENDENCE IN THE CULTURE ARE OUT THERE WORKING OVERTIME. AND WE NEED TO BE VERY, VERY CONSCIOUS OF THIS FACT AND THAT’S WHY I THINK A LOT OF OUR YOUNG PEOPLE REALLY BELIEVE. IT’S UNCONSCIOUS BUT THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN BE SPIRITUAL ON THEIR OWN AND SAY PRAYERS ON THEIR OWN. YET, EVEN IF THEY TRY TO GET AN OUR FATHER OUT, A FEW SPONTANEOUS PRAYERS AND OF COURSE THEY NEED THE MASS, SACRAMENTS, AND NEED THE EXAMPLE OF THE SAINTS. WE HAVE A CULTURE THAT JUST DOESN’T WANT THEM TO SEE IT.>>Doug: WHAT WOULD WE SAY IF SOME OF OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THE FAITH AND ALSO, CATHOLICS SAY, OH, I HAVE A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS CHRIST. WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT PERSONAL ONE ON ONE RELATIONSHIP AND HAVING A ONE ON ONE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. WHY DO I NEED A CHURCH OUTSIDE OF THAT.>>Father: FIRST OF ALL, A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST IS AN IDEAL THINGS TO HAVE BUT THAT DOESN’T REPLACE THE COMMUNITARIAN RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST. REMEMBER WHAT ST. PAUL TRIES TO TELLS IN THE DOCTRINE, OF THE BODY OF CHRIST. YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING WE DO EFFECTS THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT EVERYBODY ELSE DOES EFFECTS US. SO, WE’RE ALL PART OF THIS FABRIC. THAT’S THE FIRST THING. AND THE SECOND THING IS TO NOTE THAT NOBODY WAS EVER SUGGESTING THAT HAVING A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST IS ENOUGH. OBVIOUSLY, WE BELONG TO A COMMUNITY, WE’RE INTERPERSONAL HUMAN BEINGS AND WE EXPRESS OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST NOT ONLY BY OURSELVES BUT WITHIN OUR FAMILIES AND WITHIN OUR COMMUNITIES. OF COURSE, THE CHURCH COMMUNITY IS THE HIGHEST FORM OF EXPRESSION AND IT MOVES DOWN, TRICKLES DOWN INTO THE FAMILY AND TRICKLES DOWN THROUGH THE FAMILY INTO US. SO, WE’RE ALWAYS IN AN INTER-RELATING MODE. AND WE’RE NOT, AS IT WERE, GETTING RAYS OF GRACE BY OURSELVES OR GETTING RAYS OF GRACE THROUGH THE CHURCH, THROUGH OUR FAMILIES, THROUGH THE CHURCH THROUGH OUR FRIENDS IN THE CATHOLIC COMMUNITY, THROUGH OUR CHURCH AND OUR FAMILIES AND OUR FRIENDS TO OUR OWN PERSONHOOD, TO OUR INDIVIDUAL PERSONHOOD AND VICE VERSA. WE OF COURSE CAN CONVERSE WITH CHRIST BY OURSELVES BUT WE ALSO CONVERSE WITH HIM THROUGH THE COMMUNITY AND THROUGH THE COMMUNITY WITH HIM. SO, THAT’S WHAT WE HAVE. WE WANT IT ALL. WE’RE LIKE CHILDREN CRYING FOR BOTH. LIKE CHILDREN WHO ARE IN NEED OF BOTH. SO, THAT’S THE OBJECT.>>AND HERE IN CREDIBLE CATHOLIC, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU HAVE A QUOTE FROM 1 CORINTHIANS AND YOU SAID, ST. PAUL IMPLIES HERE THAT THE GLORIFIED BODY OF THE RISEN CHRIST IS AMONGST THE RISEN FABRIC OF THE CHURCH COMMUNITY. WHAT’S THAT MEAN?>>THE BODY OF CHRIST, IT SAYS, ST. PAUL SAYS, THIS RISEN BODY IN GLORY AND IT’S BEAUTIFUL TO BEHOLD AND WHEN THE APOSTLES SAW IT, THEY THOUGHT IT WAS LIGHT, THIS BEING TRANSFORMED IN GLORY, SPIRIT AND MAJESTY, ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT ST. PAUL USES. AND HE GOES ON TO SAY, IT’S MUCH MORE THAN THAT. BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED, WE’RE BAPTIZED INTO HIS BODY LITERALLY. WE’RE BAPTIZED INTO THAT RISEN BODY. AND IN OUR BAPTISM, WE BECOME THEN UNIFIED WITH ONE ANOTHER THROUGH HIS RISEN BODY. SO, HIS RISEN BODY IS IN US. BUT IT’S NOT JUST HIS RISEN BODY IN US, IT’S THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY THAT HE IS IN. THE ENTIRE BAPTIZED COMMUNITY THAT HE’S IN IS ALSO IN US BECAUSE THAT’S IN HIM AND HE IS IN US. SO, IF YOU LOOK AT THAT DISCOURSE IN JOHN 15 AND 16 WHERE THE GOSPEL OF JOHN 15 AND 16, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE THAT THE FATHER IS IN ME AND I’M IN HIM OF THE AND WE’RE TOGETHER IN THE BELIEVING HEART, RIGHT, IN THEM. SO, THE KEY IDEA IN JOHN AND IN ST. PAUL IS THAT JESUS IS UNIFYING US BECAUSE OF COURSE, IN OUR BAPTISM WE BECOME PART OF HIS BODY. BUT THAT MEANS THAT HIS BODY BECOMES PART OF US. SO THAT WHEN HIS BODY BECOMES PART OF US AT BAPTISM ALL OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE, THEY ARE BECOMING PART OF US AS WELL. THAT’S WHAT ST. PAUL IS TELLING US ABOUT. THAT’S THE RISEN GLORIFIED BODY, THE GREAT UNIFYING FABRIC THAT COMES TO US THROUGH BAPTISM.>>QUICKLY, TELL US WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU WHEN YOU WERE 14-YEARS-OLD AT CHRISTMAS.>>Father: WELL, THIS IS JUST A STORY AND I HOPE I HAVEN’T BORED EVERYBODY WITH IT BEFORE. HERE I WAS, 14-YEARS-OLD AND I WAS FEELING WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN REAL AFFECTIVE CONSOLATION AT CHRISTMASTIME. I WAS IN A REAL STATE OF JOY AND KIND OF ECSTASY. I DIDN’T KNOW WHAT THE CAUSE OF IT WAS. WE’RE ALL GOING OFF TO EVENING MASS. AND MY MOM IS DRIVING. AND I SAID, GEE, YOU KNOW, I’M JUST IN A STATE OF JOY, YOU KNOW. AND I JUST DON’T KNOW WHY I’M SO HAPPY. AND MY MOM SAID, DID YOU GET ALL OF YOUR PRESENTS THAT YOU WANTED, WE OPEN OUR GIFTS ON CHRISTMAS EVE. AND I SAID, YEAH, I GOT THE GIFTS I WANTED. BUT NO, NO THAT’S NOT IT. THAT’S NOT WHY I AM HAPPY. AND SHE THOUGHT FOR A MOMENT AND SHE SAID, WELL, MAYBE IT’S THE FAMILY. MAYBE YOU REALLY HAD AN EXPERIENCE OF THE LOVE OF YOUR FAMILY AND YOU REALLY LIKE US. AND I SAID, MOM, I LOVE OUR FAMILY, YEAH, THAT’S NOT IT EITHER. AND SHE’S THINKING AND THINKING. AND SHE SAID MAYBE IT’S THE JOY OF THE WHOLE COMMUNION OF SAINTS COURSING THROUGH YOU ON THIS CHRISTMAS FEAST. AND I THOUGHT, YEAH, THAT’S IT. YEAH, THAT’S IT. I’M FEELING ALL OF THE JOY THAT THE SAINTS ARE EXPERIENCING, I’M EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW. AND SEE, THERE WAS A LEAD UP TO THIS. I FELT LITTLE SPARKS OF THAT JOY EVERY SINGLE TIME THAT OUR DAD CAME INTO OUR ROOM WHEN I WAS A LITTLE KID. HE WOULD OPEN UP THE ADVENT CALENDAR. AND I WOULD ALWAYS WONDER, WHY AM I SO HAPPY ABOUT THE DOOR ON THE ADVENT CALENDAR GETTING OPENED UP? BECAUSE I’M NOT GETTING A PRESENT OR ANYTHING. BUT THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT THAT EVENT AND THE ANTICIPATION OF THAT.>>Doug: I KNOW WHY WE LIKED IT BECAUSE WE HAD THE ONES WITH THE LITTLE CHOCOLATES INSIDE. WE WERE HAPPY TO GET IT. SO, WE HAVE TO ASK YOU TO GIVE US A QUICK PRAYER BECAUSE WE’RE RUNNING A LITTLE LATE.>>Father: VERY GOOD. BOW YOUR HEAD AND PRAY FOR GOD’S BLESSING. MAY ALMIGHTY GOD SEND HIS SPIRIT DOWN UPON YOU, THE SPIRIT OF THE MYSTICAL BODY OF JESUS WHO UNIFIES US, THE SPIRIT OF JOY, THE SPIRIT OF LOVE, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, THE SPIRIT OF THE CHURCH, THE SPIRIT OF BEING IN UNITY WITH ONE ANOTHER, THE SPIRIT THAT BRINGS US TOGETHER AND THE SPIRIT THAT USHERS US INTO THE FULLNESS OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD SO THAT AS YOU FOLLOW THE SPIRIT, FOLLOWING IT IN THE CHURCH, YOU MAY FIND YOURSELF LEADING OTHERS AS WELL AS YOURSELF INTO THE FULLNESS OF LIGHT AND LOVE IN JESUS CHRIST. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN.>>Doug: AMEN. THANK YOU SO MUCH FATHER SPITZER. WE SHALL SEE YOU NEXT TIME. AND WE HOPE TO SEE YOU NEXT TIME, DON’T FORGET ABOUT HIS RESOURCES, crediblecatholic.com. AND EWTN BOOKS AND WE HAVE FATHER MULLADY’S BOOK INTERVIEW COMING UP ON BOOK MARK THIS SUNDAY. AND DON’T FORGET ABOUT THE FAMILY CELEBRATION COMING UP IN DENVER NEXT MONTH. AND NEXT WEEK, WE’RE GOING TO TALK MORE ABOUT THE CHURCH AND WHY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, IN PARTICULAR, YOU DON’T WANT TO MISS IT! A VERY BUSY TIME AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON NEXT WEEK. [MUSIC]

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