Ex Muslim Exposes The Reality of Islam In The West | Yasmine Mohammed | SPIRITUALITY | Rubin Report

Posted By on January 3, 2020

– It doesn’t make any
sense to have a woman in Mormon underwear on the
cover of “Sports Illustrated.” – No one’s saying Mormon
women can’t be athletes. – Exactly, and it also
doesn’t make any sense to have a woman in a burkini on the cover of
“Sports Illustrated.” Nobody’s saying women can’t
wear Mormon underwear, nobody’s saying women
can’t wear burkinis, but for us to pretend that
this is some empowering, feminist thing that should be
celebrated, that’s the lie. (tense music) – Hey, I’m Dave Rubin, and
this is “The Rubin Report.” Just a quick reminder to click Subscribe on
our YouTube channel and hit that little
freakin’ bell over there so that you actually see the
videos when we put ’em up, and share ’em, and
all that good stuff. Okay, joining me today
is a true fighter for liberalism in the
best sense of the word and the author of the new book “Unveiled: How Western Liberals
Empower Radical Islam.” Yasmine Mohammed, welcome
back to “The Rubin Report.” – Thank you so much
for having me, Dave. It’s great to be here. – I am glad to have
you here, my friend. This is your third “Rubin
Report” appearance. – That’s right. (chuckling) – Pretty, pretty, pretty good. Just quickly, before
we really get into it, last time you were here
I interviewed you solo, and we’re gonna recap
some of your story, which is just
absolutely incredible. And then I had you
and Faisal on together and there was an
author here from– – “Der Spiegel.”
– “Der Spiegel,” which is a big German magazine, and I had you on talking about
your fight for liberalism, and leaving radical
Islam and the rest of it, and Faisal as a Iraqi
refugee coming to America, fighting for freedom, and
then “Der Spiegel” put me on the cover of the
magazine saying something like I’m the leader
of the alt-right, so I don’t know what you’re
gonna do to me today. (Dave and Yasmine chuckling) – That was terrible. That was absolutely shocking. The word Nazi was in
that article too, yeah. – I thought bringing
in someone like you would offer me a little
cover, and yet here we are. – I’m a Nazi too, Dave. (Dave and Yasmine laughing) – All right, you’re right. So let’s get right to it. So I really think you
are one of, truly, I’m just gonna pat you
on the back to start. I think you’re one
of the most brave, fearless, fun, joyous,
decent people that I know. – [Yasmine] Thank you, gotcha. – And your story is incredible. It’s incredible and
it’s exactly so much of what is happening right now, so for anyone that didn’t
see the original interview, can we just do a five-minute
sorta recap of your life. Give me your whole
life in five minutes so that we can then
shift into this. – Okay, I’ll try as hard as I
can to get into five minutes, but essentially I grew up in a fundamentalist Muslim
household in Canada. So here I am, living
in the free West but essentially under
Sharia in my own home, so I feel like I have
one foot in each camp. And so growing up in a
fundamentalist Muslim household meant that I went
to Islamic schools, the hijab was put on
me at nine years old, I was forced into a
marriage with a man who turned out to be jihadi,
a member of Al Quaeda. Actually, he was
one of the people that trained the
terrorists that bombed the American
embassies in Tanzania, so a horrible human being. And I was able to get away, I had a daughter with him, and then was able
to get away from him and start a new life
with my daughter and I because we’re living in
a free, secular democracy that supported me
in that decision. And I stayed quiet, living my life with my
daughter for many years, until the infamous episode with Sam Harris and Ben
Affleck on “Bill Maher,” and that day I was
really shocked to see that everybody on my Facebook
page and all my friends were totally
supporting Ben Affleck and against this guy
that Ben was yelling at. – Yeah, can you just quickly, I know most of my
audience knows the story, but can you quickly recap
what that’s all about, because, as you
know, my wake up, I came from a liberal
New York family and literally my
political wake up was the exact same moment. I was watching it live as
you were watching it live. We weren’t gonna
meet for five years, and so many people, not just us, woke up at that very moment. – Yeah, it’s a pretty shocking little microcosm of
everything, you know? So essentially Sam and Bill
were talking about liberals and how–
– Bill Maher. – Sorry, who did I say?
– No, no, well, you just said Bill. I just want people, everyone
to be sure we’re talking about Bill Maher here.
– Yeah, yup, yup. Sam Harris and Bill
Maher were talking about how liberals will
get so excited, and happy, and applaud loudly if
we talk about supporting the real values like women’s
equality, LGBT equality, free speech, all
those kind of things, but then if you talk
about how those values are nowhere to be seen in
the Muslim-majority world, or if we talk about the fact
that in countries like Egypt, like close to 90%
of people believe that if you leave
the religion of Islam that you should be executed. These are concerning numbers,
these are concerning things, that if we care
about liberal values, we should care about
them universally, not just within our close
proximity geographically. And as they were talking, Ben Affleck got really irate and he started yelling at them, and calling them
gross and racist because he felt like,
exactly, he was, it’s like he decided he
wanted to be exhibit A to embody exactly what they
were talking about, you know? – Mr. Virtue signal. Let’s roll.
– Mr. Virtue signal, and he went ahead
and just did exactly what they were talking about, which was to get all upset that they were
talking about Islam; meanwhile, this is the
same person, of course, that did a movie criticizing
Christianity, “Dogma,” criticizing dogma in general. – That’s literally what
the entire movie’s about. It’s actually a pretty
funny movie, yeah. – But then why can’t
we also criticize other religions that
also deserve criticism? – How much of it for you was
that Sam clearly laid out something that I now talk
about all the time here, that you’re allowed,
not allowed, you must criticize ideas and must not be
bigoted towards people? It’s such an obvious thing
when you think about it, but people can’t, or not people, a certain set of people
seem to be unable to detangle those things. You could criticize the
Old Testament all you want, the New Testament. That doesn’t mean you hate
Jews or you hate Christians. Or you would criticize
a political party. That doesn’t mean
you everyone who, say, a Republican or a Democrat. But for some reason
with this issue, it seems almost
inextricably intertwined. – I don’t know if
it’s that intertwined. I think that they just
pretend that it is, to be perfectly honesty, because it’s sort of like
if Ilhan Omar says something and people criticize
her for what she said, the response is, “Oh, you
hate her because she’s black “and because she’s Muslim.” It’s like nobody has mentioned her skin color or her religion. We’re talking about the
words that she has tweeted or the words that she has said, but it’s just a way, I
think, of deflecting. And, in fact, that
episode with Sam Harris, the reason why I
started to speak up was because everybody
that was attacking him was attacking him not because
of anything that he said because everything that he
said made absolutely sense. They were attacking him
because of his skin color, because he’s American,
white, and male, and so that’s what
they were against. So I said, “All right, well,
I am Arab, female, and–” – That’s good enough!
– What’s the third thing? – Well, also you grew up Muslim. That might have some value
in this equation, right? – Right, and I’ll just go ahead and I’ll say the exact same
thing that Sam is saying, and then you’ll have to
respond to the actual message. – Oh, but you do find out
that that was not the case. – (chuckles) Yeah, no, I
didn’t calculate correctly because apparently I can
still be a white supremacist. – Yeah, it’s actually pretty–
– (chuckles) You know? – So had you ever, was the
reason that your wake up in that moment watching
that television show, was the reason that you had never heard it so
obviously explained and seen a reaction that
was so over the top? Were you thinking
sort of this stuff? ‘Cause, for me, as a
big lefty and working at “The Young
Turks” and all that, I had been seeing it,
but suddenly it was like, “Whoa, that’s all
of it right there.” – Yeah, so I hadn’t
been seeing it at all, and, in fact, when Sam started
to speak and he started to talk about the concentric
circles and everything, I started to get really excited
because mainstream media. I mean, this guy is
on Bill Maher’s show. I’ve been watching Bill
Maher since I was a teenager. And I was so excited that this is part of mainstream
conversation now. People are gonna start
talking about this. People are gonna
talk about people being hacked to death in
the streets of Bangladesh, or people being whipped in
the streets of Saudi Arabia, or women going to
prison in Iran. I mean, et cetera, et cetera. All of these problems
in the Muslim world that we should be addressing. Gay people being executed in
15 Muslim-majority countries. Why isn’t this an conversation? Why hasn’t anybody
mentioned this? We have a whole month where we
have pride flags everywhere, but that never comes up again. It’s only people within this
close geographical proximity. So I was really excited to hear Sam and Bill having
this conversation, and then it was such an
incredible punch to the gut to have Ben Affleck
shut them down, because I was like,
“Oh, my God, really?” Like, “Can you just, please? “You don’t understand
anything about this world. “You don’t understand the value “of these men
finally speaking up.” And for him to shut them
down, it was really hurtful. It was really upsetting. – So let’s back up for a
second because you’re talking about the geography
related to all this, and you mentioned a
couple other countries that are not that close
to Canada and the U.S., but you grew up with a lot
of those rules in Canada. I think that’s hard for a
lot of people to understand. Can you just talk, I know
we’ve done this before, and we’ll actually link to
your original video in this. But can you talk a
little bit more about, like, I don’t think people
can really understand that you grew up Canadian
in Western, you know, in a Western country and lived
under some of these laws. – Absolutely, and, in fact,
Faisal grew up in Iraq, and him and I talk all the time about how his
upbringing was more– – More liberal.
– More liberal than mine was, and that has a lot
to do with the fact that when you’re not in a
Muslim-majority country, sometimes the family members
become a lot more zealous because they’re super concerned about you picking up ideas
from the non-believers, so they wanna have a very tight, they wanna make sure that
your bubble that you live in is very separated from
the non-believers outside. – Were your parents
immigrants to Canada? – Yeah.
– And were they fundamentalists on the way in? – No, they weren’t. So neither of them were
practicing, really. They were just born Muslim, and pretty secular upbringings, and it wasn’t until,
well, they separated, my mom and dad separated, and my mom was alone
with three kids. She started looking for support, started looking for community, and so she went
looking at the mosque. She went to the mosque and
that’s where she found a man who offered to take her on as
his second concurrent wife, so he was already married,
already had three kids. – This is in Canada. – This is in Canada,
and I have to express, these are very common things. This isn’t just my story. This is very common
that there are people that I speak to all
over the states, all over the Netherlands,
all over Europe, all over the U.K.,
Scotland, everywhere, that tell me about
how they also grew up in households with
more than one mother, more than one wife
to the husband, and going to Islamic schools, and living in their own
little bubble of Sharia. It’s not like my
story is unique. – Are they technically married? Are the mosques actually
performing that marriage? It’s obviously not
done in a civil way in a place like Canada. – Yeah, so that’s exactly it. So the first wife would
be his legal wife, and then the second
wife, third, fourth, would be Islamically married. So, yes, the mosques are
performing these marriages, and quite often what
ends up happening is he will go on
social assistance and each one of the other wives
will apply as single moms. Quite often the government is sort of aware
of what’s going on, but they don’t do
anything about it. This is an issue in
Canada where there’s millions of dollars
spent in this direction, but they don’t wanna
say anything about it because, of course,
cultural relativism. Even though it’s
against the law, this is the subtitle of my book, because things are
against the law, but when a Muslim does it, people are afraid to touch
it with a 10-foot pole because they don’t wanna
come off as being racist, or Islamophobic, or
bigoted, or whatever. And then, of course, that
is a real slippery slope that can lead to things like
the rape gangs in Rotherham, where journalists, politicians,
everybody was too scared to say anything because
most of these rape gangs were being led by
Pakistani Muslim men, and so they stayed
quiet about it. That, of course,
allowed these girls, some as young as 11, to
continue to be raped. So that’s what happens
when we turn a blind eye. There are victims under there. – So, all right, the
subtitle of the book, “How Western Liberals
Empower Radical Islam.” You wake up, you’ve
lived through this. It sounds like you, basically,
immediately realized, oops, this isn’t gonna
be as great as I thought. You sorta thought the dam was
gonna break and it was like, holy cow, people are
gonna start understanding. The left’s gonna wake up. Liberals are gonna wake up. You quickly found out that
wasn’t what was happening. What else happened at that time? Did you start seeing
support from places maybe you didn’t think you
were gonna get support? – Yeah, so initially I
came out as anonymous, and I started getting
messages like crazy from people all over
the Muslim world who were excited that
I was telling my story, happy that I was
telling my story, and asking me to be their voice, so telling me their
stories as well. And then I got to a certain,
you know, it wasn’t very long. I was probably
about a year into it when I started to
just feel ashamed. I was like, here I
am using a a fake, you know, “Confessions
of an Ex-Muslim,” ’cause I’m afraid
to use my real name. – Right, that was your original experiment, right?
– That was my original thing, and I don’t have
my face out there. And these are people
that are living in countries like Pakistan, where they can go to prison
for just questioning anything to do with the religion that
would be considered blasphemy, and thrown in prison. So I started to feel like, here I am living in a
free, secular country. I have to be, you
know, I gotta man up. I gotta put my face out
there, put my name out there. And so that’s actually
what initially was the catalyst for
me to start speaking. So that was, their support, and it still is their
support that keeps me going, especially women in
countries like Iran when they take off their hijab
and they’re posting videos. Women in Saudi Arabia taking off their niqabs
and burning them. The women all over the
Muslim-majority world that are fighting back against
the literal patriarchy, those are the
women that I really wanna be here to support,
and they’re the fuel. – Are you shocked at how
fearful people are in the West? You’re just describing these
incredibly brave people who literally could lose their
life and everything else, but that people in
the West are afraid to say what they think, be who
they are, and the rest of it? – Yeah, absolutely, it
makes me (chuckles). It’s infuriating, actually. Like I mentioned, these
people can go to prison and they can be killed
for speaking out. Over here, you’ve got people where it’s your First Amendment. Free speech is like, there’s a reason why it’s
in the First Amendment, it’s that important,
and they are instead, they’ve got these
self-imposed blasphemy laws. Like in Saudi
Arabia, and Pakistan, all those other countries, the government will get
you for speaking out, but here, they get each other. It’s really shocking
to me and sad. – Were you also shocked that, ’cause there is a world
of either ex-Muslims, or Muslim reformers,
or whatever, and I’ve had some of them
on the show, actually. Were you shocked
how sort of at odds even that world
sorta seemed to be? So that it’s many times
someone like you comes out, you defend liberalism,
and then they’ll even, those guy who are
supposedly the reformers will even attack
someone like you. – Yeah, I think
that there’s always, the thing is about people
that leave their communities, (chuckles) it’s
like herding cats. – Yeah. (chuckles)
– You know? (laughing) We’re not the
wallflowers, right? The wallflowers are still
in (chuckles) the religion. So I think that when you
get a bunch of people that are willing to be
vocal in this sphere or willing to walk away
from their communities, those people are usually,
they’ve got some fight in them, and so you see all
sorts of schisms and sometimes
negative interactions, but I don’t necessary
see that as a bad thing. I come from a world
where everybody followed the exact same book, and everybody had to, in Islam it’s called the
(speaking in foreign language). So it’s this long, thin,
almost like a tightrope, and underneath the
tightrope is hell, and you have to walk
this long, straight path, narrow path, and you have
to be very, very careful never to stray or you’re gonna
burn in hell for eternity. So there was no
variation in anything. Everybody thought the same, everybody spoke the same, everybody acted the same, and so now out here
in the real world where people have
different ideas, and people disagree,
and whatever, I don’t see that as a bad thing. I’m happy to see it. – Yeah, it’s interesting
because when I started doing some shows
with people like you, the amount of hate I
got from that crew, the supposed reformer crew, I was just like, “You
know what, I tried. “It was an interesting thing. “I thought this was a nice
way of defending liberalism.” And, basically, I haven’t
touched this topic in probably since literally
the last time you were here, which is almost three years ago. So even though I had
Faisal on a few weeks ago, we really just talked about
foreign policy and geopolitics because there’s a certain
opportunity cost that comes with defending liberalism in
liberal Western societies, which is quite bizarre. – Yeah, yeah, but you know what? You’re doing it. (laughing) – (chuckles) I guess.
– We’re doing the best we can. – We’re doing the best we can. So this is sort of where
I’m at with all of this, and we don’t have to make this
specifically about religion. Do you think there is
something inherently flawed or that liberalism has
some sort of weakness that these people have
been able to either exploit or unearth that maybe
we couldn’t see before? – Yeah, unfortunately,
I think that that’s true and they’ve been very
transparent about that. So the Muslim Brotherhood
clearly said that we’re going to spread Islam without
raising a single sword, and the way that we’re gonna
do that is through three means: number one, through the
wombs of Muslim mothers; number two, through
immigration; and number three, through using secular
laws against themselves. And, in fact, Hassan al-Banna, who is Tariq
Ramadan’s grandfather, so the person who started
the Muslim Brotherhood, said, “We need to have
our children in the West “so that they can
understand the Western mind, “so that we know how to
infiltrate,” basically, because us, ’cause
he was Egyptian, doesn’t matter even if
we live in the West, we’re never really gonna
understand their mindset. We’re not gonna know
how to work against it. So, yeah, that was
part of the plan. – So what do you think the
weakness is of liberalism? You know I talk about
classic liberalism a lot. I do believe it is
the best set of ideas to create the most
human flourishing and allow people to
be themselves, and
govern themselves, and live the lives
they wanna live, but I have come to a certain
unfortunate conclusion that it might have a soft
spot and they’ve gone for it. What do you think it is about? Not what they’re trying to do, but do you think
there is something within liberalism itself? – I think that the
problem with liberalism is that people
aren’t standing up for liberalism as
much as they should. So what ends up happening–
– Do you think that’s an inherent problem of liberal, of the openness of liberalism
allows that to happen? Like that, I’m starting to get to that spot.
– Yeah, look. I’ll tell you what I mean. So I gave the example of
the rape gangs in the U.K. Also in the U.K., once every hour a girl
goes to the emergency room. There’s a case reported of
FGM, female genital mutilation. For the past 30 years, it’s
been against the law there, but nobody’s ever
been prosecuted. There’s my personal
story in there of me going to the
judge, basically. It went through social services, and through police
and everything, and I ended up going
to family court, where I told them about how
my family were beating me, and I showed them the bruises, and they all understood
what was going on, and in the end, the judge said, “Listen, you come from a
culture where that’s acceptable. “That’s the way your family
chooses to discipline you, “so that’s their right.” – Unbelievable.
– So this is what I mean. If we stood by our principles, if we stood by our
values, and we said, “Look, this is what
liberalism means “and this is the
stop sign,” right? But this failure that
I think you’re seeing, and that I’m seeing too, is that there’s no stop sign. Where’s the boundary? You have to have a
point where you say, “Yes, we’re inclusive. “Yes, we accept
you, up until then. “Up until you cross
this line right here.” – So would you say that
it’s moral relativism, that you referenced earlier, that has somehow
seemed into liberalism? I mean, to me, that’s what
created the progressives. You had decent liberals
who just wanna, like even now when
they’re virtue signaling about gays, and blacks, and
Muslims, blah, blah, blah, I’m like, most of you
aren’t bad people. You’re just confused
about what the issues are and you’re confused
about what freedom is, but then this moral relativism
seeps in and for some reason, I mean, it’s probably
for a whole other show, but, I mean, I do have a lot
of thoughts on why liberalism has this soft underbelly
that accepts that, where something
like conservatism maybe because of
religious connection, which is a pretty
bizarre position for someone like you
to have to think about, has protections against it. – Yeah, I think that’s
actually the biggest problem I can see with the
progressives right now, is that they remind me too
much of religious people. It reminds me too much of the
world that I walked away from. So these progressives,
the far-left ones, they’ve got this cancel
culture, for example. Well, you see that
with Scientologists,
suppress a person. Muslims will kill you if
you leave the religion. You can be ex-communicated,
ostracized, or canceled. Do you know what I mean? There’s so many– – Our friend Pete Boghossian
calls it a secular religion. That’s what he calls–
– Absolutely. – Radical leftism.
– Mm-hmm. So when we’re talking about
liberalism, I’m here for it, but then when we start to talk about this far-left progressive,
secular-religion people, those guys remind me so much of the guys that I
just ran away from, like risked my life and
risked my daughter’s life to get away from, so I
want nothing to do them just as much as I want
nothing to do with them. But the problem is
here in the middle where there’s
rational-minded people, these guys on both sides
are just nasty. (chuckling) You know what I mean? If you think of the Westboro
Baptist Church people standing there with
like God hates fags, or the jihadis with
their behead anybody who criticizes Islam– – Both bad, I’m happy
to criticize both. – Yeah, and then on this side, you’ve got those guys that
were blocking that old lady and her walker that was
trying to get to your talk, you know what I mean? – Whose husband fought
the Nazis in World War II and they’re calling her a Nazi. – Unbelievable, so, I mean, they’re just angry people
that are unwilling to engage in just decent interaction
with other human beings, but they want people to walk on that long,
straight, narrow path. They decide what that long,
straight, narrow path is, right? And they want everybody
to walk on it. That’s what I’m totally against. – In a weird way, though, is it scary for you as someone that left a fundamentalist
line of thinking to see that as the secularists
become fundamentalists, it almost seems to me that
everything happening right now is just the end of secularism,
which really blows. That’s the best way–
– I hope not. – Well, that it
almost seems like what the progressives
are offering us, and the moral relativism,
and post modernism, and identity politics,
and all those things, which is so the reverse of
liberalism and Western belief, that that is secularism on
steroids, you know what I mean? I truly hate to say that. – I think that, well, as you
know, I’m a college professor and my students are like
18 to 25 demographic, and I really do believe, maybe I’m being a hopeless
optimist right now, but I really do believe–
– You sorta have to be in your business, wouldn’t you? – (chuckles) Yeah, I feel
like there is a post-woke, they’re called Zoomers
now (laughing). – [Dave] Yeah, yeah, yeah. – I really feel that
they roll their eyes at all of these things,
and I honestly feel like those people that
we’re talking against, I feel like they’re gonna
fizzle themselves out before they’re able to bring
down secularism or liberalism. I really– – Do you see signs of that? So your signs are saying that young people now
that you’re teaching, and, believe me, I see
plenty when I go to colleges. There’s plenty of people
standing up against this, but I would say for as many
that stand up against it, we just don’t know how many are afraid to for
the same reason. – That’s exactly it,
and that’s exactly what the religious
thing reminds me of too, because when I was Muslim
and I was doubting, and I was questioning, and I didn’t like the
things that I was hearing, I wasn’t gonna say anything because I’m gonna
be attacked for it. And I’m gonna be
not just attacked, I’m gonna be demonized
for it, right? If I just say these things, it’s like, oh, how could
you question the faith? You’re a non-believer. You’re us and them. You’re now the enemy. And it’s exactly the same thing
that’s happening over here. I mean, my daughter’s in, you know, she’s studying
to be a social worker and in that field
it’s super left. I mean, she had a question
in one of her final exams– – [Dave] Oh, God. – It said, “Gender is a social
construct, true or false?” And she was like, “Mom, I had to answer it
incorrectly to get the grades.” You know what I mean? And so many stories like that. And, so yeah, so she
bites her tongue in class because she wants to pass, and sometimes in
discussions she’ll notice that there are other people that are sort of
saying things too, but like she was telling
me the other day, as soon as the
discussion started, her teacher just shut
it down and was like, “Different people have
different opinion. “Different people,”
and she’s like, “Literally, that’s
the point of school, “is that different people
have different opinions. “Why are you guys even scared
to have these conversations?” – Is that a doubly
intense thing for you? Because not only your backstory and everything that
you’ve told us here, you’re also on college campuses. So you’re like really hit with this monster all
the time, basically. – Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
try to as much as I can just focus on all of
the positive things that are going on, you know? But it does bring me down. Quite often I just feel like
I just wanna quit everything and just move to
a deserted island, but there are enough thing
that I see that keep me going. – I’m looking into
some land somewhere. I don’t wanna say what
we’re doing (laughing). – No, don’t (laughs), don’t
say it on air. (laughing) – Did I ever tell
you about the time, I think I was speaking
at University of Arizona and, I don’t know, there
was a couple hundred kids, and there was a kid
towards the back who was brown-skinned,
happened to see him, and it wasn’t the brown skin
that alerted me in any way, it was that he looked very
glassed over in his face, really sort of lost and
sorta, and you can pick that. You speak in front of public. Sometimes your eye just gets
caught to a particular person. It might be the body
language or whatever it is, and I could see he
was also really sweaty and he kinda looked
glossed over, and I just was a little nervous. Like, you just don’t know
these days, you just, whatever. Anyway, I’m doing the
meet and greet after and I see him in the line,
and he comes up to me, and he gets really close to me, and he says, “Can I hug you?” He hugs me and then he
says, “I’m like you.” I didn’t know what
he meant at first, and then it took me a second, and then he said, “I’m gay.” Oh, and his name was Mohammed, and I thought this
is just so twisted that someone like him
has to live in fear while he lives in Arizona. And it’s, like, you see this
over, and over, and over. – Yeah, and that’s
why it’s so meaningful when you go and do these talks. That’s why it’s so meaningful when Sam was on
Bill Maher’s show. Or it’s so meaningful when
Sam was doing his TED Talk and he was talking about
women in Afghanistan having to cover
themselves up in bags and why we don’t
care about that, and why we’re not talking about. It’s so meaningful to
people like me and this guy, who were brought up,
I mean, him probably, you know, it’s Arizona,
and, for me, it’s Canada. You think that these kinds of
things only happen over there, in these countries under
these strict Sharia regimes, but anywhere, we’re within, these ideas cross
borders, right? So if we’re within
that community, you really have to keep
your personal thoughts, your doubts, your
homosexuality, your feminism, your any ideas that go, that are sort of
dissonant in any way, you have to be so
quiet about it, so to see somebody
else talking about it is just incredibly healing. – So to be crystal clear, for those of us,
including the two of us, who would never want anyone to be bigoted towards
Muslim people, and who want Muslim
people to live free and practice their religion
however they want– – I want all people
to live free. – Of course. What do you think the reformers, are the reformers
making any headway? It’s sort of hard to say. And what can the
liberals do even? ‘Cause every time the
liberals get involved, it doesn’t work out
well for the liberals, and then it actually,
in many ways, it seems like it
hurts the reformers ’cause then they doubly seem
like sellouts or something. But do you think
the reformation, you know, other religions have
gone through reformations. There’s a reason that most
Jews are mainly liberal, which upsets a lot of
conservative people, but they’re mainly liberal, usually, I think, in the
better sense of liberalism, or Christianity, obviously,
went through a reformation. The church went
through a reformation. Do you sense that Islam can
go through a reformation? – I think that there are people
all over the Muslim world and the Western
world that are Muslim that are pushing back
against fundamentalism. ISIS did a lot to
help people to see this is what your
religion teaches. This is the end game right here. So it got a lot of Muslims–
– What would you say to people that say that’s not
what the religion teaches, or? – Then I would say read about
the religion. (laughing) Read the Koran, read the Hadith, read the way the prophet lived. Not everything ISIS did was
following the prophet’s example, but the sex slavery, throwing gay people off
of a highest rooftop. A lot of the things
that they did were just following in
the prophet’s footsteps. Let’s not forget that
Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi had a PhD in Islamic studies. – You mean the austere religious scholar–
– Yes! Oh, my God.
– According to “The Washington Post”? – So this is your question,
about what the left can do, or what liberals can do
to support the reformers, or to support the people
in these countries that are fighting back, is how about you not
support the fundamentalists? How about if you not
call a terrorist, I mean, the most vicious,
disgusting terrorist, leader of the most horrible terrorist organization
we’ve ever had to date, how about you not call
him an austere scholar? How about that? How about you not take– – But what do you think is
happening in the newsroom? So let’s remove this
from college kids. – A lot of problems?
Let’s remove this – I don’t know. (laughing)
– from Twitter. Is it just like, has this, or you think it’s just
a massive mind virus that has just run
through the intuitions? Media, political, whatever. – We saw this in Canada too when we were talking
about bringing, Justin Trudeau was talking about bringing ISIS
fighters back into Canada and the conservatives we’re,
of course, against that idea, and so he retorted with calling the conservative
leader Islamophobic, because he didn’t wanna
bring back ISIS fighters. It’s like–
– Wait, there’s a lot there. First, wait, so for
them, what was Trudeau, anyone think, anyone
with half a brain, I don’t wanna give Trudeau
more than he deserves, but if you have half a brain, if you leave your
country to fight ISIS, you should not be
allowed to come back, or to fight for ISIS
or any terrorist group. You shouldn’t be
allowed to come back. I don’t think that’s
a racist thing. That’s not Islamophobic. – It has nothing
to do with race. It has nothing to do with Islam. It has to do with the fact
that this is a criminal. This is a terrorist. This is a horrible human being. And so for you
– What do you think – To not to be able to–
– is happening in Trudeau’s brain.
– They just cannot recognize that people with
brown skin can be bad, that’s what it comes down to. If this person had gone to
Germany to join the Nazis, (chuckles) you know what I mean? – Right.
– And then decided, oh, and had burned his passport because he was so in
support of the Nazis and now he’s decided to
come back to Canada again, there’s not gonna be any
open arms for that person, but for some reason there’s
just like this misfire when the person has brown
skin or when they’re Muslim. It’s really the bigotry of low
expectations, is what it is, is they’re not treating the religion of Islam
or Muslim people, they’re not treating
them the same as they would treat
everyone else. So you see like when I
talk about FGM in the U.K. Okay, once every hour a girl is getting her clitoris
chopped off with a razor. If it was a white
family that did this to their blonde girl,
those people would be in prison in a heartbeat, right?
– Front page. And everybody, yeah,
front page news. Everybody would
be just absolutely
disgusted and horrified that anybody could do
this to their own child, but because they’re
from Somalia, then we’re just not gonna, we’re just not
gonna talk about it. – Do you think all of this ultimately strengthens
the far-right? Because that seems to be sort of where we’re seeing a
lot of that in Europe, and I think we’re
now starting to see some signs of it here
in the United States, and I’m not talking about
the Westboro Baptist Church, just like some
remnant of the KKK, but something more perverse that feels like maybe it’s
starting to bubble up, and in a weird way
it makes sense. I’m not excusing
it, but it’s like, oh, this sorta makes sense, just if you understand
human psychology. – I think that those
people always existed, that are just, you know, that hate Jews just
’cause their Jews, or they hate Somalis just because they have
dark skin or whatever, but in this climate, I think it was Maajid
Nawaz that said it, or maybe it was Sam
Harris, I can’t remember, that if we, the
rational-minded people, are not speaking about
these issues rationally, then we are just leaving
it to the irrational to start having
these conversations. Unfortunately, what
ends up happening is that the people that
are in this rational sphere are craving for anybody
to say these things, and then it’s unfortunate
that sometimes it comes from the
mouth of somebody that you wish it would
come from over here, you know what I mean? And so they end
up getting support maybe because of that one issue, and I think that’s probably, a good example of that
is the way Asra Nomani voted for Donald Trump,
was exactly that. – And then what
happened to her after, I mean, just a pile on.
– What happened to her after. – It was just unbelievable.
– Yeah, yeah. – Actually, I never
hear of her anymore. Is she even still in the game? – She’s still in the– – Come to think of it, I
mean, I follow her on Twitter. I’ve not seen a tweet of
hers in God knows how long. I don’t know if she’s, I don’t know if it’s
shadow banning or– – She’s writing a book
right now, so she’s busy, but she’s still in the game. But it’s, like, I can’t
remember who said this analogy, I’m stealing it from
somebody right now, where they said if
the house is on fire and you can see the
fire everywhere, but all the people are
saying things like, “It’s a fire of
peace,” (laughing) or like, “There’s
no problem here,” then if somebody’s
got the door open, even if it’s Boris
Johnson or Donald Trump, or doesn’t matter who it is. Somebody got the door open
over there and they’re saying, “Yeah, there’s a fire
guys; I can see it,” you’re gonna head for
that person and be like, “Yes, thank you, sanity.” You know what I mean? – Yeah.
– So I think that in a way it probably does
get more supporters, but that’s on us, you know? That’s because we’re over here pretending that
everything is fine and that there’s
nothing to talk about. – It’s interesting,
I can give you another fire analogy
that is from Bill Maher. He talks about how
liberals, for some reason, or lefties, the house
is burning down, and instead of figuring
out how to get out, which is what you’re
describing, they’re going, “There’s a dust bunny
in the corner over there “and we better fight about how
to clean up the dust bunny,” and the whole house
is gonna burn down and then you just
got a bunch of people with a lot of rubble
on top of ’em. – That’s so good. I love that. – It’s just another version
of what you just said there. – That’s exactly it. – The in-fighting,
the in-fighting, instead of going, “Guys, we
got a bigger problem here. “Could we (chuckles),
look over this way.” – Absolutely, 100%
behind that analogy too, and that’s something, like if we talk about
feminism, for example. We’re fixated on are
air conditioners sexist? Can we build chairs so
that men can’t man spread? You know what I mean? We’re concerned about all
of these little things and it’s like, okay, but how
about these women over here that are being throw in prison because they want to wear
what they wanna wear. Do you know what I mean? Or these women over here
that just wanna drive a car. Or these women, you know– – Come on, bigot. – Yeah, like, but what’s
the bigotry though, right? Isn’t that the bigotry? – Well, that’s the bigotry. I mean, that’s–
– That’s the bigotry, is they’re saying, “I don’t care about
those women over there.” In fact, it’s
empowering for them to cover themselves up
head to toe in black in the searing
heat of the desert. That’s great for
them, not for me. For me, I wanna go
free the nipple, but for them, it’s empowering
for them to cover themselves, and, in fact, let’s
celebrate that. Let’s put a hijab on Barbie, and let’s put a
swoosh on a hijab, and let’s put it on the cover
of “Sports Illustrated.” – Is that the part
that makes you crazier than anything else?
– Yes. – Because when you see this, literally, they’ll have
everything you just described. Nike has the hijab
and the whole thing, but they would never do
that for Mormon women, or where’s the, Orthodox
Jewish women wear a wig. Where’s the wig with the logo? In any other religious sense, people would be like,
“This is bananas.” No one’s saying that women shouldn’t be allowed
to do these things, no one’s saying they shouldn’t be allowed to wear
what they want, but sort of like the corporate, ugh, gimme me, I was
gonna say something that was gonna be a
gross, sexual reference. Like, just the corporate
need to suck this thing off. – Yeah, yeah, yeah.
– You know? – Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely, I mean,
it doesn’t make any sense to have a woman in
Mormon underwear on the cover of
“Sports Illustrated.” – No one’s saying Mormon
women can’t be athletes. – Exactly, and it also
doesn’t make any sense to have a woman in a burkini on the cover of
“Sports Illustrated.” Nobody’s saying women can’t
wear Mormon underwear, nobody’s saying women
can’t wear burkinis, but for us to pretend that
this is some empowering, feminist thing that should be
celebrated, that’s the lie. That’s the problem right there. – Do you think part of it is
just for the average person? Like, let’s try to
give these people as much credit as possible. The average advertising
executive out there. Every commercial
now that you see, there’s always a woman
in a hijab in it. Like, literally, Reese’s Pieces, and we all like Reese’s Pieces, and I’m a Muslim
with Reese’s Pieces. Okay, great.
– Yeah, fantastic. – But they do this in
all these commercials now and I don’t, for me,
it’s like, of course, that’s wonderful that everyone
can eat Reese’s Pieces and everyone can play
sports, we love it, but they do it because
it’s their way of, because they think inclusivity
is the number one thing, and how else could
you show inclusivity as opposed to just
showing people? So they think they’re
doing something good but they’re bizarrely
then protecting things that would never protect them. – Yeah, you’re right, and
that’s why technically the title of my book
should have been “How Western Liberals
Inadvertently Empower
Radical Islam.” So, yeah, they’re not
doing it on purpose, but they are doing
it, essentially. Look at how everybody
just attacked Mitt Romney for the fact that he was
Mormon, do you know what I mean? If we did take, let’s say, a whole bunch of Mormon
symbols and had them, like if Nike put
their swoosh on it, and if we had them on
Reese’s Pieces commercials, and in Banana Republic,
and in Marks and Spencer, and, literally,
any flat surface, we just splashed all of these Mormon symbols all
over the place, people would be responding
appropriately, right? People would be like, “Why
are you celebrating Mormonism? “Why are we valuing this
far, fundamentalist ideology? “We shouldn’t be doing this.” – I don’t even think
they would go that far. I think most people
would say Mormons can be whoever they are and
do whatever the want, but we just don’t need it to
be promoted through all of our mainstream channels.
– That’s exactly it. We don’t need to
slap our logo on it. You know what I mean? Mattel didn’t create Mormon
underwear for Barbie. Why would they create
a hijab for Barbie? That’s all I’m saying. I’m not saying these
people aren’t allowed to make whatever
choices they wanna make or wear whatever
they wanna wear. I’m saying that we
here as free liberal, enlightened country
of secularists, we really should
not be celebrating fundamentalist
aspects of religion. And, in fact, I just wanna add, most Muslim women in
America do not wear hijab, but we’re only celebrating
the ones that wear hijab. Hillary Clinton ignored the
women who won a gold medal. She ignored her
and instead focused on this woman over here
because she has a hijab on. It’s very clear that
we’re not celebrating American-Muslim women in general or just being inclusive of
different types of Americans. We’re specifically
supporting the American women that look like
fundamentalist Muslims because they are
wearing the hijab. Those are the ones
that get celebrated. Those are the ones that get
on the cover of magazines. Those are the ones that get
splashed on every flat surface. – So as all of this
happens to you, and you write a book about this, and you enter the online
world and the whole thing. We talk a lot about
this privately. What do you make of
what’s happening, broadly speaking, on the right? That you’re a woman, you’re
brown, you’re liberal. You’re supposed to be
hated by these people, if we listen to
the just, you know, the non-thinking meme
that’s out there, but that’s not really the case. – No, I mean, I see
a big difference in just openness to
diversity of ideas. So this long, straight path
that I was taking about, I see that very
clearly on the left, but on the right, I
can talk about the fact that I don’t believe
in Christianity, and I don’t believe
in any religion, and, in fact, I think
that it’s toxic. I can talk about
being pro-choice, and I always will be pro-choice, and there’s nothing
you can ever say to me that’s gonna ever get me to
consider not being pro-choice. – And that’s a deal-breaker
for a lot of conservatives, but they’re still
happy to talk to you. – They’re still
happy to talk to me because we agree
on certain things. Like we agree, obviously, the
way we feel about the left. They agree with how I feel
about fundamentalist Islam, but we don’t necessarily
agree if we’re gonna be talking about
fundamentalist Christianity. There are a lot
of secular people on the right that
do agree with me, but what I mean to say is
that the variation in thought is more accepted on the
right than it is on the left. Not the liberal,
classical liberal, not the typical left, but that little far-left
crazies over here. There’s no variation in thought. You need to speak perfectly. You can’t even get
a pronoun wrong or you are just evil, right? But on the right, they’re
more willing to just sit back and disagree with
what I have to say, but not try to shut me
down, or not demonize me, or not, you know, they wouldn’t
call me gross and racist if I had something to say
that completely disagreed with their value system or
with their belief system. Having said that though, there are quite a few
people on the right, on the far-right, who
I’ve interacted with, who they’ll get mad at me
because I have a white husband, and we’ve made a brown baby, so I’ve not ruined that lineage. I get that kind of attack. I get attacks for, oh, once
a Muslim, always a Muslim. We just don’t want your
type in our country anyway. Go back to where you came from. So just like there are
some crazies on this side, there are some
crazies on this side, but I think that this
middle ground here is full of both left and
right people, and that’s, like I said to you when I
was here a few years ago, I really believe that
this is the largest group, that we just haven’t
found a way to, we’re just not at loud. Like, these guys, if
it bleeds, it leads. So these guys are
loud and obnoxious, and so then they’re
getting all the airtime, but all the rational
people in the middle, I think we’re the majority. – In a weird way, it’s almost like we’re
fighting human psychology, to be rational. A couple days ago, I
spoke at Sacramento State, and we knew that
there were gonna be some of these white
nationalist people there, and a local news group came,
and I gave what I think was probably the best
speech of my life, ’cause I’ve been thinking
about a lot of this ’cause I’m writing my book,
and I was really sharp, and I took all the
questions I could, I didn’t censor
anybody or anything, and it actually
went totally fine. There was some minor screaming, like minor, minor,
marginal stuff, but nothing happened. Nobody was attacked,
nobody was thrown out, no fire alarms were pulled, and then, of course,
they don’t cover it on television because
it was a peaceful exchange of ideas–
– Exactly. – And yet had anything
crazy happened, just one person really screamed or had I done anything
on tour or whatever, it’s like now we’re on
the news, the local news, and then it gets picked up
by CNN, and America’s racist, but whenever you
diffuse things as sane, somewhat centrist people,
nobody has a freakin’ clue. – Absolutely.
– Which is a problem. – This is a probably
because then people start to feel like the
world’s gone crazy, and they start to
feel like things are way worse than
they really are. I don’t think, and we
give them too much, because we think that
things are so bad, we give them too much credence. There’s too much
credibility given to these people who
say crazy stuff. Why are we even paying
attention to them? This Jessica Yaniv from my
hometown of Vancouver, BC. So went to estheticians
and insisted that they wax Jessica’s
(chuckling) balls, basically. – Right, so to be clear,
she is a biological male. Nobody has a problem
with her identifying as a trans person,
but she has balls. – Yeah, she has balls, and there are many reasons
why these women refused, one of which being
it’s a completely different skillset
as an esthetician, you know what I mean? – Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s
probably a different tool. – There’s some very
different things. A very different wax
or different methods, you know what I mean? These are physically very
different body parts. And so these women just weren’t, they didn’t have the
knowledge required to do this, and she took that
and ran with it to the Human Rights Tribunal and said that it was a
violation of her rights, et cetera, et cetera. Oh, my God, how much
airtime she got, right? Ricky Gervais is
tweeting about her, and it’s just all
over the place. Blaire did a really great
video on her, Blaire White, just all over the news,
and that is somebody that as a society we should
just be either ignoring. (chuckling) You
know what I mean? It should have just been, luckily, the Human
Right Tribunal, the judgment, it
was against her, so everything turned
out fine in the end, but she just got way
too much airtime. We spent too much
time and energy talking about
somebody like that. And so it makes everybody
say things like, “Wow, the trans
community, they are nuts!” It’s like, no,
Jessica Yaniv is nuts. – Yeah, but we
ignore all the ones that are just
living their lives. That’s what I always say
about the bathroom thing. It’s like trans people can
go into whatever bathroom they wanted to
pretty much forever and there’s really been no
– It’s never been a problem. – issues with it, and now
we find one issue with it, we blow it up into a national
emergency where suddenly, literally, when it was happening
in North Carolina, I think, Obama was like,
“We’re cutting funding “to the state if they
don’t,” and it’s like, I think we might
have blown this thing out of proportion, guys. – Totally, totally being blown out of proportion all the time, and I think that that’s
really dangerous, and I just wish that we
could get to the point where we just ignore
stupid things, you know? Like there was, was
it Bed, Bath & Beyond that they had to take
down their pumpkins, they had black
pumpkins, and they said, “We’re gonna take these
pumpkins off the shelves “because they’re
pumpkins with blackface.” Like jack-o’-lanterns, right? They’re Halloween–
– I missed this one. Somehow I missed this one. – Yeah, so when
people, when somebody writes you a letter–
– They still do have the 20% off coupons
though, right? – I think those are–
‘Cause people freaked – You’re good with that.
– about those. Yeah, okay, good. – But, I mean, if you’re
Bed, Bath & Beyond and you get a letter
from a nut job saying, “You need to take
these off the shelves “because these jack-o’-lanterns
have blackface,” you know what, send them
a 20% coupon. (laughing) – Yeah.
– Do you know what I mean? – Give ’em five 20% coupons. – Yeah, just like,
shh, go back home. Everything’s gonna be okay. You don’t take them
off the shelves. You don’t listen to
these idiots. (laughing) You know what I mean? – But that also, it still
gets back to that thing about the weakness of
liberalism, I think. And I hate to say it, like,
I truly hate to say it, that it’s like these
institutions and companies, to watch social justice
infect everything, and for some reason liberals, and, of course, I
don’t mean everybody, but they don’t stand up for it. They always take the
path of least resistance. – And I think
that’s the problem. I don’t necessarily think that
liberalism is the problem, I think that the
problem is that liberals are not standing up
for liberal values. And we talked about this when
I was here last time, before, just Western values,
enlightenment values. Why do we feel like that’s
a bad thing to support? – Well, now the memes out there, well, it was all white men. It was John Locke and it was
all white men, Adam Smith. It was all white men.
– Who cares! – John Stuart Mill, white guy. – Yeah, it’s like in all
of these colleges now, where they’re taking down
all the pictures of the poets and statues because
these are all white men. – Most of them wrote poetry
in the name of whiteness, did you know that?
– Oh, goodness. Yeah, the point is that that’s really the problem right there. That’s the crux of
the issue right there, is they’re not looking
at the value itself or the issue itself, but they’re looking at the
color of the skin of the people, and that works both
ways too, right? To go back to the
Rotherham rape gangs, that was the problem there too. Instead of just
looking and saying, “Oh, my God, thousands
upon thousands “of girls are being raped. “We need to do
something about that,” they went, “Wait a minute,
but they’re being raped “by men with brown
skin, so hold up. “We have to address
this differently.” No you don’t! Those are still
girls being raped. Doesn’t matter if
they’re being raped by white men, or black
men, or brown men. Irrelevant. – Is the other part of this, and we sort of referenced
this earlier about, so when there were all
those rapes in Germany a couple of years
ago on New Years, and they didn’t want, and
they sort of covered it up, and basically the only people that were talking about it
online were people on the right, and Breitbart was covering
it, and Drudge maybe, and a few things like that, and then so then what happened is the mainstream media is like, “See the way they’re blowing
this thing out of proportion,” but then regular Germans
who I’ve talked to said, “No, this was real. “This was a real
thing that happened.” And then what happens is
the people who were like, and then it came out that
it was really happening. Like, it was very clear
that it was happening, and then maybe some
minor media touched it, but basically it
makes those people who were the ones screaming
about it first go, “Well, the media’s against us
and this is horrible stuff.” It feeds their, it
feeds the narrative too. – It does, it does,
unfortunately. Yeah, and not only does
it feed the narrative, it feeds the hate too. It feeds those insidious people. So in Sweden, for example, where they refuse to
talk about anti-Semitism and how it has risen so
much, so now it’s like, I think it went from
something like 12% to 50%, or something like that. It just keeps on growing. As long as you
don’t talk about it, as long as you
don’t identify it, as long as you
don’t try to fix it, it’s just gonna
continue to fester, and is that what you want? Really, that can’t
be what they want. They don’t want to be
empowering those people to just keep going because
nobody’s talking about it. – You know what’s funny–
– We’re getting away with it. – You know, I was
on tour with Jordan and we went all over the world. We went to all the
Nordic countries. In Sweden, we ended
up doing two shows because the first show sold
out in literally 30 seconds. – Wow.
– And we were there, and everyone, you know, if
you listen to all the lefties, they’re were saying, “Well,
we should be more like Sweden. “We should be more like Sweden
and the Nordic countries.” Everyone that came to our shows, and I get it, it’s a
self-selected group of people, they’re completely afraid
of saying what they think. That was the running theme. The shows there,
when we got on stage, it was like people were
like, it was like– – Starving about it.
– Like they were like, (exhales sharply), like that. It was actually, I can’t
get the vision though of if nine-year-old
Yasmine in full garb would have know that
20-some-odd years later she’d be on YouTube talking
about waxing people’s balls. I had that in my head
for the last five minutes and I just had to get
it out, otherwise… But there’s a beauty
to that, isn’t there? I mean, there really–
– There is a beauty. I wish I could have
know that any of this was even an option back then because back then
there was no internet. There was no way for
us to all communicate. There was no way for these
voices to be heard, right? Mainstream media
were just deciding what was gonna go on our
little TV with five channels and that was it, you know? And I really felt so alone, and so stuck, and really crazy, because everybody around me, I describe it like
a school of fish. Everybody’s going
in this direction and you don’t really
think about it. You’re not given the
opportunity to think about it. You just move along with them. And if you move on your own,
it’s just so terrifying, but even as a kid, I was
always questioning things, and things didn’t
make sense to me. Imagine being a
nine-year-old girl, being told that you
need to revere a man, a 53-year-old man that
raped a nine-year-old girl. Like, you have to love him more than you love
yourself, you know? That’s pretty gross. That’s traumatizing to have
to stop the part of your brain that is disgusted at
the prophet of Allah, you know what I mean? Because how could you. He’s like the most
perfect example of
humanity for all time, and so you get filled
with this self-hate and this self-doubt, but I
think that what you’re doing now with these YouTube
videos and, obviously, Twitter, Facebook,
social media in general, with people being allowed
to express their views, there’s no gatekeepers,
well, I mean, they are, but (laughing) to
a lesser extent. So not only can we reach people like that young man you
spoke about in Arizona, but we can reach people
in Iran, in Saudi Arabia, and Sudan, and Somalia, and
Pakistan, and Bangladesh. It’s crazy, but they, just like I was as a kid
growing up in Canada, feeling crazy because I don’t
wanna express how I’m feeling because everybody around
me disagrees with me, they have an outlet now, and what they’re
living, of course, is way worse than
what I was living because at least I got
to see both worlds. I got to see outside
of the bubble. I wasn’t part of it,
but I saw it over there, and I knew that
there was a reality that was way better than
this reality in here. And so I had something
to strive for, whereas in a lot
of those countries, up until recently, they
couldn’t even see it. They didn’t know
that it existed. There’s a great quote in the
documentary “Misrepresentation” where they say, “You cannot
be what you cannot see.” And that was exactly
it right there, right? I saw Sheryl Sandberg. I saw, at the time,
it’s kind of ironic now, but Sinead O’Connor and how
she cut that picture, you know? And I saw Madonna
fighting against religion, and all of those things. John Lennon’s
“Imagine,” no religion. There were ideas permeating through that bubble
into my head, but I still felt very
alone, very separate, very just scared, and I
wish that I had been able, you know, I’m so happy now that people–
– Yeah, you’re doing it now. – Get that other side. – So just one more
thing for you, although, that was a beautiful
closing to an interview. So just could you
talk a little bit about how difficult it
was to publish the book because you ultimately
self-published, and we’ve talked
about it privately, but you said to me, basically, if this was about
leaving Christianity, or leaving Judaism,
or leaving Mormonism, or certainly leaving
Scientology, whatever else, you’re gonna get a
book deal real quick. You’re gonna have
a Netflix special, and there’ll be a documentary, and a fiction version,
and dat dat dat da da. – Yeah, and this is, that’s going back
to that whole thing of identity again, right? So if I had gone through
this exact same experience, somebody else went through it, leaving the Westboro
Baptist Church, or leaving Hasidic Judaism, or leaving the Mormon
church, whatever it is, they will not touch my
story with a 10-foot pole because of the color of my skin and because of the fact that
I came from a non-white, what’s viewed as a
non-white religion. So they’re not
comfortable criticizing or celebrating somebody
who is criticizing the ideology of
the brown people, but the issues within Islam are
much, much more exaggerated, like they’re much
worse than they are from Scientology,
or Westboro Baptist, or any of those
other fundamentalist
Christian ideologies that people are happy
to speak out against. Please speak out against
these, that’s fantastic. There’s definitely
a problem there, and we definitely
should celebrate people like Leah Remini, or
Megan Phelps-Roper, or anybody that leaves
these horrible ideologies, please celebrate those people, but can we also
celebrate all people? What about Ayaan Hirsi Ali? What about what
she has overcome? I can’t think of a single
human being that has overcome more than what that
woman has overcome, but we demonize here.
– She’s the barometer. To me, if you say to somebody, “What do you think
about Ayaan Hirsi Ali?” Now, I guess some people
aren’t gonna know her, but if you know her and you
have to think for a second before answering how
wonderful she is, and brave, and all those
things, you are confused. – Yeah, and if she had
white skin, and blonde hair, and overcame those things
in a Western context– – Woo!
– We’d have statues of her. You know what I mean? People would definitely
recognize how amazing she is, but because she’s from a
different part of the world and her skin is a
different color, then they’re not willing
to celebrate her, and, to me, that is
the epitome of racism. – That’s a second
great ending by you. You’re getting good at this. All right, you guys can get
“Unveiled” at Yasmine’s website, which is yasminemohammed.com. If you’re looking
for more honest and thoughtful conversations
about spirituality instead of non-stop yelling, check out our
spirituality playlist, and if you wanna
watch full interviews on a variety of topics, check out our
full-episode playlists. They’re all right over here. And to get notified
of all future videos, be sure to subscribe and
click the notification bell.

Posted by Lewis Heart

This article has 100 comments

  1. If rational people are behaving irrationally then they are no longer rational.
    Scientologists, Muslim extremists, Westbto Baptist church, yup that's a fair sampling from which to form an opinion about religion.
    Mitt Romney wears it cause he's a mormon. Isnt that what you've just been doing?
    Theres a valuable and valid message in this interview but the generalizations and assumptions detract from it.

  2. “Most Muslim women in America do NOT wear a hijab, but we’re only celebrating the ones who wear the hijab” … Well said, dear lady.

  3. It's amazing how people are puzzled about why Western feminists don't call out radical Islam. Its because Western feminists have succeed in subjugating Western men. The last challenge is so subjugate the Islamic man. A woman likes a challenge! A woman wants to "fix" a man. Well…have at it ladies!!!

  4. I wasn’t OK with trans people using the wrong bathrooms years ago! I actually caught one looking underneath the bathroom stall of child. Tried to approach him about it he ran away! apparently he has done this before!

  5. I would share my own feelings in Islam without hate, but my own country (CANADA) has laws on speech so that i can't feel free to voice my opinions, knowledge or anything like that as it would label me as using "hate speech" EVEN if what i said was true and i wouldn't lie… THAT is telling about where this world is headed!

  6. I do think it a good idea for Western women to chillax and do unbiased research like the woman who made that documentary red pilled or something and back down from hating on men.
    I'll explain it to you this way, yes man'splanning 😁
    FACT. men are faster and stronger
    FACT. if you continue backing them into a corner then western men will turn on you and give you Islam 👍

  7. I really believe the agenda is to normalize oppression of women in the West after all the rights and freedoms we have fought for to be taken from us. Genital mutilation honour killings etc. Some guys would love an excuse to beat their wife for looking at another man.

  8. The so called 'alt right' uprising, is not far right people that were just suddenly convinced by Mien Kamph…. they are liberals and conservatives that are concerned about mass Islamic immigration and the crime in their countries.

  9. all religions that are 2500 years old is written by man changed the sentences by man,shoud language by man words lost words added all done by man and there leaders and controllers why are so many folks so brainwashed by the modern doctrines,even whn some one has a close death see the bullshit,as some one not brought up in a modern doctrine and followered my own path when i had a few close death connections,i felt saw and connected to everything and all 360 view and that golden light is rebirth back to this trap this illusion to fed the low energy enterties

  10. This lady who as first hand experience of how evil Islam is should do a one on one with Ben affleck then let’s see what the Hollywood moron as to say

  11. Interesting interview. Some constructive criticism: try to avoid 'leading' the person interviewed. Rather than saying "is it scary for you that.. " better to say "how do you feel that ..". This might help convince listeners that expressed words and opinions are genuine.

  12. I have debated with others on how the issue with the Islamic religion is not a racist issue but is fundamentally anti-American. Freedom of speech is protected for all not for a specific person part of the population. Slavery, polygamy, assaulting a person, child abuse, child endangerment, are illegal and having sexual relations with a minor is statutory rape regardless of consent because a minor cannot legally consent to anything.

    The main problem I see facing the US citizens is the lack of humility and understanding for what the Constitution means and represents. This problem will cascade into the destruction of the USA unless its citizens stand up and set things right again. Part of the cascade is that those who flee their countries or decide that they want to be US citizens and then bring the problems of their old country with them. America is a melting pot and the thing that has made it strong is that those who have come have assimilated to some extent. Non English speaking persons learned the language and spoke it in public as a courtesy and in their homes spoke their native language. Many, not all, expect us to learn Spanish or speak it in public. Those who learn English are typically hard working people with goals and aspirations and open businesses.

    Prime example of this cascade is California, which has descended into a nightmare from the perspective of someone from Austin, TX. I can say this because thousands have fled California for many reasons mostly due to taxes and laws that seem unjust. So these disgruntled ex-Californians move to States that are booming and have lower tax rates and in some cases do not have a State Tax. Then their insanity takes over and rather than having learned from what went wrong with the State they fled, they now vote in laws that were the same as before or laws that will lead to the same as what they fled. The problem stems from the left who are Socialists. This is what I call the "Progressive Left". I disagree with this title due to the premise that they are on the side of progress, when in reality seems to be based on racism.

    My parents were very blue and in the 1980's would have been considered far left which is pretty much middle of the road liberal.and at the time Virginia was a very Conservative State. We were living in North Carolina but we were well aware of our neighboring states at least politically. I did not know it at the time but they put a bad taste in my mouth for Socialist views. Essentially, think of the nonsensical explanations that the "Progressive Left" (aka Socialists) state or try to convey always in a feeling or something that is not concrete and that would be the explanations of my parents. "Do as I say, Not as I do" and yet told me I should lead by example to my younger siblings, just as a mild example. This is also an example of shutting down dialogue.

    You can assume what my political standing , because I am not going to state it. Fair warning most people get it wrong due to my ability to play devil's advocate in that I can debate either side as if that were my belief. This is just speaking concerning the Socialists, Leftists, "Progressive Left", or whatever you want to call the Far Left.

    An example of playing devil's advocate is during a debate having to persuade others to be conservative. Automatically if you are Christian and believe in the Holy Bible, then you should be conservative, because Jesus was. Jesus Christ did not involve himself in political matters or other people's business, due to he was carrying out his Father's will. When people tried to involve him he gave a simple answer that baffled the person who was trying to trick Christ into their way of thinking. He believed in teaching a man to fish rather than giving him a fish, essentially, Christ was against the welfare state which has been proven to make a man dependent rather than independent. He made no judgments but did set people in their place when a person tried to judge and saying things along the lines of " He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone". The bible has spoken out against sodomy and the man and woman must cleave unto each other. These are all conservative views in that a person should essentially mind their own business and when dealing with others give your advice when called upon and do not judge. He lead by example again a conservative view. This just an example without any citations due to the length of this brief explanation. Then I went on to express the belief in a higher power and even to convince Atheists of at least a higher power and then convince of civilization has been founded and has progressed when moral laws have been put into place and then argued still all of this process is conservative in nature.

    Is the Hijab a religious article of clothing or is it an article of clothing that covers that which could cause sin? Ift is the latter, then why compare the Hijab to Mormon clothes. It is to my understanding that those are kept covered and are religious in nature and should not be seen by others. If the Hijab is an article of clothing that ensures modesty as in western culture are clothes to hide that which is seen as being provocative or indecent, then it would be comparing apples to oranges. Sure both are articles of clothing just as both fruits are round but the purpose and taste are not the same. or equivalent.

  13. If Liberalism has it's basis in the individual, then liberalism must superceed any and all collectivist principals.
    Liberal values must benefit the individual, and NOT the collective groups (whether religious, racial, gender, sex etc.).

    Liberals must then stand up for individual rights (human rights) and fight against collective rights that are trying to undermine individual rights.

    I wonder why some liberals took to collectivism… was it for the aggregated power of the group?
    That's understandable, but when will they realise that the group, in defense of itself, can become corrupt and sacrifice the principals rights of the individual members?

  14. Let me put forth a thought; Ben Affleck didnt have a choice in saying what he said. It was what he had to do in his position to save his carreer. This was either or for him, if he had agreed with Sam and Bill, his carreer would have been over the moment he opened his mouth. People whos carreers are dependent on rich westerners ill concieved notions about whats right HAVE to play in to what the majority thinks or else it is over. They are complete whores for public opinion.

    What he did was not right. but he did what he did to save his carreer.

  15. Many People in the west don't speak out in fear of having reputation ruined as they will be classed as an Islamophobic racist bigot.

  16. The real lie is saying women can be empowered and be part of a religion were the profit had intercourse with a 9 YEAR OLD LITTLE GIRL!

  17. I really love the fact that she kept her last name. It is good for people on the right, to listen to people with "Muhammed" in their name and actually agree with most of what they say. Also it is amazing for religious extremists to see this beautiful, liberal woman named "Muhammed" LOVE IT ! 🙂

  18. 20:15 this is exactly why you should be concerned. 3 rules of conquering and this is one being infiltrate another nation. Do so by over populating in that region to turn defy it’s laws in mass. By any means necessary at that.

    Last I checked no other religion has a clause to conquer a nation. Let alone by breeding into it and forcing it to your will. Also last I checked Islam is among the extreme few to have and be ok with slavery. Also note she ran away from her home land being run under Islam.

    Didn’t hear her say she left Islam which is questionable. However she makes plenty of good minded responses on the issues to some degree. In the end she is only 1/3 talking this way. I’ll remain cautious of Islam till it’s the norm they renounce their barbaric followings of Muhamed trying to be him. At the end of the day why cling to Islam if she herself says it teaches extremism? Not one Imam will answer this and I boil it down to power and money.

  19. Foreigner might not know: In germany the word "Nazi" is used to silence the opinion of people you don't like.
    German people feel ashamed when you call them Nazi, this is who you control their opinion, their behaviour and their "freedom of speech".
    It is also difficult to see any connection to the real Nazis – this when you know when someone is trying to control your freedom of speech.

  20. I don't think people in the West are frightened, I think they are being dishonest and gong along with what they think everyone else is doing. I am sick of living in a society that just goes with the flow, when they know what is happening is wrong !

  21. My favourite bit was when they both pretended a mentally ill man was actually a woman in order to bolster their 'libertarian' cred.

  22. It's white guilt that allows these libtard politicians to ignore the crimes of "brown" people. Dave, it's not far right that gains from the libtards. It's the conservative right. The far right is always going to be there, just like the far left. The difference is that the conservative right will always condemn the Alt right, unlike the left…which has become a monolithic face. As long as you have the squad being the face of the "new" left (ie the democratic party), then it will be the party of libtards and far left.

  23. It is very sad, In the UK any comment that is critical of Islam in the UK media is automatically deleted. I do not hate Muslims, I feel sorry for Muslims they are the primary victims of Islam. Islam hates me and I do hate Islam but not its Muslim victims. Kudos to her, the west really need to spread her message.

  24. The lady carries with her an inherent importance to this scene, but she's no academic, to put it lightly. Hate to say it. And it's probably because she's… you guessed it, a liberal. A couple of things she just went completely into leftfield, no pun, sat down and picked some grass. But I do like her.

    Edit: I wrote this before minute 26. Just amazing. A professor. You know what, I think I'll be a professor. Seems everyone is doing it these days.

  25. Yasmin: islam covers women

    Bible: Women shd be covered and protected from evil eye

    Liberal to yasmin: let's troll on beach with ur uncover butt

    Yasmine: Yes Darling: This is empowerment!

    From Pakistan

  26. Yasmine, It's not about brown or black skin. Black and brown Christians are being butchered everyday by Islam and the mainstream media and politicians and progressive celebrities dont care. It's all about Islam. FYI, Muhammad was white!

  27. I do not really enjoy the expressed conceit of how lucky a person is to be on the Ruben Report. If the person is on the show multiple times, it is because of their own merit, that they have been "invited". Especially when the discussion promotes the beliefs of the facilitator.

    I appreciate the content on this channel, just a thought.

  28. I'm not sure what to make of this video. This woman is absolutely lovely and so intelligent and it was great to listen to her thoughts and experiences. However, the interviewer came across a bit intrusive and seemed like he was repeatedly trying to put some of his own ideas and words into her mouth or direct the conversation in some particular direction instead of letting it flow naturally, not sure how to explain what I'm feeling in English. So odd.

  29. This is an eye opener for me. I've lived in Canada for the past 10 years and I've always known that Muslim community here, even just locally that I can see with my on eyes, are rapidly growing in number. And like Yasmine said here, each of the ethnicities have their on bubble so they "don't lose their heritage". But I had absolutely no clue that "concurrent islamically married wives" were a thing that is common and its eating the government's funding. I'm hoping by "it's a common thing" that does not mean it's 1 in every 10 or 100 family common. However, any minor issue timed by the percentage of the population and frequency of occurrence is going to become an exceptional concern and needs to be checked.

  30. These great women (she is not alone and not the only one) I always compare them to medical prevention.
    You can save yourself from deadly diseases with prevention. She is spreading very useful medicines to avoid cancer.
    The cancer in question is obviously Islam.

  31. Reddit used to have a thread called watch people die and on it during the Syrian conflict you could find uncensored examples of what ISIS was doing to people who would not convert or that were secular. I watched them gun down an entire room full of people, behead people, set people on fire in cages, and blow people up with det. cord. You could see the true face of ISIS and the fundamentalist attitude towards all those who were not them. It showed what was being filtered out by the Western media.

  32. The weakness of liberalism is the expectation that other cultures will abide by the same rules of liberalism, which is why we have inaction among our governments, and humans natural tendency to destroy itself once it gets comfortable. We've seen this in ancient Rome and Greece where, as the same as modern day, the birth rate was falling, parents weren't interested in looking after their children, morals flipped, standards slipped, obesity was on the rise and they resorted to infighting and squabbling with themselves that they didn't even notice the army standing outside their gates until it was too late. The West is going to fall to a real patriarchal society, not some made up one by feminists, if it doesn't get its act together.

    The UK especially has a huge problem of not enforcing its own values, due to fear of being called racist, and this bizarre self-hatred complex we have which is sanding away any of the things that were great about our country. Ask anyone here what our culture is and they'll say "Britain doesn't have one" or "um…" and a very long pause to an eventual "I don't know". It's so sad that the masses have been brainwashed into thinking that Britain isn't anything to be proud of and that we don't have a culture to defend. Hopefully the referendum result, allowing Boris Johnson into full power, has shown us that people are starting to wake up and feel pride for their home.

  33. I agree with Yasmine, she made some good points. Something like, don’t give energy or time to nay sayers or criminal behaviour. Ignore those who bad-mouth, support charging criminals for doing unlawful acts.

  34. Honestly this was the moment I realized I fkng loathed Ben Affleck. He sounded so stupid and ignorant and it boggled my mind that most people supported him. What he said had zero logic and was purely irrational.

    I am liberal as well but have seen my beliefs tarnished by this new left obsessed with identity and virtue signalling and immuned to debate and nuanced discussion. Good on this woman she is smart and brave.

  35. I hear tales from women like this a lot, and I don't believe a lot of what they say. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is totally FOS for example. Ask Muslims from this part of the world who are NOT Feminist and they have a very different perspective. I suspect this woman of simple pandering for profit.

  36. I'm happy Yasmine escaped the religious horror she was born into but I did feel this interview had definite current of religious bias. 'Fundamentalist' religions of any type are harmful to their societies but that does not mean secularism is the answer. I find secularism is toxic, it allows for the murder of unborn children and the forcing of God from the public square. Be outraged by FGM but well abortion is ok. I find that hypocritical. Your welcome to your beliefs or non-beliefs Yasmine but I'd prefer if you did not attack religious people in general, we are not your enemy.

  37. Why is it that we can explore the question of radical Islam however not radical secular Judaism such as the ADL and SPLC?

  38. Was Islam reformed to Wahhabism? Would Muhammad be more like a Wahhabi Muslim at the time of his death than as a Sufi Muslim? If the Saudi Reformation to Wahhabi Islam took it back to Muhammad, then Islam needs to be abandoned. And people who want to leave Islam need to be protected.

  39. Moral relativism is based on the false assumption that we can't know objective reality as it really is and that everybody can make up their own reality and that all that we can know are ideas in our heads and not real things out there. This is Kantian philosophy. This is the reason for the confusion. But in actuality we have ideas about real objects out there that we apprehend through sense knowledge from which we abstract an idea of the thing. Truth is conforming our minds to the reality of the object out there.

  40. Although I like a lot of what she says.. I think she is still talking a little shit… belittling western culture too much

  41. As a Canadian, this terrifies me. Luckily I live in a small town with no Islamists, hopefully I’ll die here in peace with my freedom as well.

  42. Islam is such a ridiculous and horrible ideology. Everyone really needs to sit down and read a Sira in their own language. Get to know “the life of Mohammad”. Read it and then try defending Momo the murderous child molester as some perfect guy to follow. 👎 🤮🙅‍♀️🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕

  43. This is going to sound ignorant – but I'm really glad I watched this. I did not know that liberals could be this sane. I have been moving to more conservatism because of the insanity liberals have been demonstrating. And it's just as Yasmine says – We don't stand up for the values of liberalism. I don't want transgenderism thrown in my face all the time. I believe in the freedom of homosexuals to be homosexual but why are we discussing someone's sexual preference at the dinner table? Why is it all we talk about. and when people who we don't agree with want to talk about what they believe in – we are so intolerant. Why do we think they should be fired for believing something I don't? I was starting to feel that Conservatives are more tolerant of differences than liberals. I feel so much more optimistic about the future when I hear stuff like this. Thank you both for your courage to be liberal and say these things in a thoughtful – rational way.

  44. I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints(the actual name of the Mormons), and I’m glad you guys made sure to specify that you weren’t saying anything bad about us. Thanks! People should just be nice to each other and try to live with a bit of understanding. If people believe that my church is evil or whatever, and I have no idea why they would, but they can think what they want because they don’t have to condone something they believe to be wrong. As long as they are willing to treat us (and any other religious people) with the respect all human beings deserve, then we can be bros. Also, we don’t believe homosexual behavior is right, but I still respect and love the crap out of Dave Rubin! You go dude!

  45. Another great interview by Dave Rubin! I have read several critical books about Islam during the years and I'm looking forward to reading Yasmine Mohammed's Unveiled as well which I just bought as Kindle Edition on Amazon.

  46. Min 52:50
    He's right and he's uncomfortable with it. There is an inherent weakness in liberalism. It lives in a paradox that will remain forever lodged in itself an enigma. It's seen in their earlier statement that they're ok with Islam and how they want to practice their belief. What they mean to imply is their ok with how an individual may practice their belief as long as it doesn't bother or hurt someone else. However, this exposes the flaw in their system of their "belief". All belief systems religious or secular carry with it the necessary compulsion to include others in it, and they always will. No man is an island.

    The problem will forever be, "What law ought to govern the heart of man?" And "Says who?"

  47. Am i the only one who finds it "IRONIC" that those who preach "Acceptance" only accept those who are "PC" / Leftest? While Conservatives simply ask everyone to play by the rules and obey the laws! If you don't buy what i'm selling that's fine! Don't crucify me because you don't like what i'm offering! The last time I checked, we we're a FREE country w/ LAWS that applied to all!?

  48. Annnnd I got an advert from The Muslim Institute saying that all the bad stuff isn't real Islam and you need a license to preach.. hmm..

  49. The only way to live is by Christ’s standard. Anything that deviates from that is suboptimal at best and genocidal at worst.

  50. Exactly why are the world ignoring these issues and the gross violations of human rights of this religion – this is whats wrong with Westerners they actually empower this evil to prosper

  51. 28:00 Shes spot on, this is a huge problem. I'm from Canada and a close friend of mine is also studying to become a social worker, and alot of the what looks like opinion based questions actually have a right or wrong answer. It's ridiculous.

  52. I really wish you address her idea that all religion is toxic. I don't know much about her background other than what was presented here but as she argued that you have to read the quran to know islam, you should also read the Bible to understand Christianity. The Bible holds many strong values, encourages love and the idea that it is not for us to judge. The toxicity only comes into play when the values are twisted by people who are misguided by their own judgement. I just hope Yasmine is able to experience the love and acceptance that Christianity is supposed to be one day so she is able to see that people form the toxins.

  53. One thing she quotes on Muslim brotherhood motto. Womb, immigrate and convert. All 3 are happening in India. So India with 9% Muslim population at partition has almost doubled the % in last 70 years. The leftist do not see this as a problem at all. I am 52 years old now. Probably I won't see Muslims in majority in India before I die, but it's going to happen very fast. Not just India whole Europe, Canada, New Zealand will see Christian populations dwindle and countries implementing Sharia in next 25-30 years with Muslim majority.

  54. The govt of Australia is the liberal party and is a strong democratic govt
    But sadly the word liberalism is more the word used by the left in western society
    What they call liberalism is socialism communism Islam anti jewish etc etc anything that doesn’t fit in with their agenda

  55. America cannot impose its views on other nations , I’m sorry but that has not played in your favor in the past , let people wakes up and fight for themselves. Help can only be given when asked for .

  56. Dave, your makeup artist is failing. From under your eyes to above your lip you look jaundiced because they used the wrong colors on you. If they were trying to cover something, they failed. I'm a subscriber and love your show.

  57. Oh man, her daughter is screwed if she's in Social Work school. They are rabidly extreme Left. The didn't just drink the Kool-Aid, they are forcefeeding it to students. Take a look at the National Association of Social Workers (NASW) Code of Ethics. George Will wrote an article entitled "Code of Coersion" about their socialist indoctrination.

  58. hahaha i love how this women who by choice left islam and stop wearing hijab think their choice is superior to those women who did the opposite who by their own choice follow islam and adhere to the hijab and feel empowered by it. oh no emporement can only come through bikinis not hijab lol.

  59. Honestly, "the weakness of liberalism" is its inclination toward moral and cultural relativism and its espousal of unconditional tolerance and inclusivity. Maybe true, classical, Lockean liberalism had standards and healthy boundaries, but too many people have grown unfamiliar with or entirely divorced from a clear understanding of the principles and standards of true John Locke, Thomas Jefferson liberalism that it has devolved into some wishy washy feel good nonsense with little to no foundation to it, which has devolved into worthless, vague liberal-esque sentimentalism and opened itself up to the kind of unprimcipled relativism and unconditional acceptance I described. So-called "progressivism" is at best a perversion of liberalism because actual center-right liberals lost their philisophical and moral foubdation and ceded their position to the unprincipled, jellyfish leftists.

  60. 16:33 – Self-imposed blasphemy laws
    After rewatching Simon Sinek's videos and J.B.P. 's as well as reading a bit about C.Jung
    There is a direct correlation why an individual of a group adheres to such behavior which obviously is harmful/"bad" for people, even willing blinding themselves to this harm in order to be able to believe that they are a part of a group able to provide security (socially and due to this indirectly also for continued survival).

    Every life-form tries everything to stay alive; As such our species has developed to form companionship and hierarchical communities; these communities gather under an idea and this idea creates a platform of influence for itself. But it goes further as humans have both a creative component as well as an autonomous component to drive them, this idea becomes a part of our autonomous systems (which is in part a self-protective measure) through which it becomes a reinforced spiritual habit of sorts; Even if the faith/idea creates no real measurable difference when it comes to an increase in a human well-being, Our subconsciousness is driven by our cell's biological urge to survive influencing our way of thinking.

    In Yoga humans who are fully immersed in the autonomous way of being are called Tamsic, they are 'ignorant, "without care" and self-destructive' as they are bound to the environmental influences; It is the goal of Yoga to further oneself to a more healthy way of being that is not chained to such a way of life.


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