Bishop Barron on The Holy Spirit in the Life of the Church

Posted By on November 18, 2019


Posted by Lewis Heart

This article has 70 comments

  1. The Sex abuse scandal though a big crisis, is nowhere near the liturgical crisis the Church is going throughout the entire world.

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  2. @ThisRestlessPilgrim In the importance it has to the faith of the Church as a whole. The sexual abuse was a big scandal, but does not undermine the faith by dumbing it down. The Church is made of sinners but when the very foundations of it, namely the liturgy, are changed then the entire faith is compromised.

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  3. @AdversusHaereses

    A young child, a precious life made in the image and likeness of God, abused and scarred for life by someone who should be caring for and protecting them

    vs.

    Fr. Joe adding "and each other" to the dismissal at Mass

    Yeah, sorry, you're not going to convince me on this one.

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  4. @AdversusHaereses "The sexual abuse was a big scandal, but does not undermine the faith by dumbing it down"

    No, it undermines the faith by demonstrating hypocrisy of some priests and bishops who hurt a lot of innocent people. Do you see bitter against the Church because Father Ted allows high-fiving at the sign of peace? No. You find people bitter against the Church because of real people who have been scarred by a Church which hasn't come close to living up to the morality it proclaims.

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  5. @AdversusHaereses I don't deny that there have been liturgical abuses and these need to be reformed, but to claim that it's a bigger crisis than the sexual scandals of recent years I just don't think is tenable (and it comes off to the non-Catholic as insensitive, placing internal liturgical wranglings above that of serious sin and human punishment).

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  6. @ThisRestlessPilgrim I will have to agree with you that the nature of these two is completely different. However, the sexual abuse is something relatively local to the US and Europe, yet they do undermine the faith and cause deep scandal. On the other hand the liturgical crisis has undermined the entire faith of the Church as a whole. The mass has seized to be understood as a sacrifice of Calvary for the remission of sins to be merely a supper. This has undermined the very core of the Church.

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  7. @AdversusHaereses " the sexual abuse is something relatively local to the US and Europe"

    Firstly, these are the areas where the Church membership is in *serious* trouble. Secondly, this is what characterizes the Church for the rest of the world.

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  8. @AdversusHaereses Also, the liturgical "crisis" (I think "problem" would be a better word) isn't really even the issue – it's much more a problem concerned with catechesis – people simply don't know their faith because it isn't being taught, and when it is, it's been taught badly.

    What liturgical abuse do you think has led to a widespread disassociation of the Eucharist with the sacrifice on Calvary?

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  9. The more wonderful something is, the more terrible it is when it is abused. The wonderful gift of our children, and the wonderful gift of the priesthood both being misused on the most basic level. It is really horrible for those of us who love the Church. We shall need to spend the rest of our lives making the Church the safest place of all for children

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  10. @ThisRestlessPilgrim The simple fact that in most parishes, the mass is not celebrated with the celebrant facing east, the Holy Eucharist is no longer given in the tongue while kneeling, most sacred music has been thrown out of the window and replaced with secular music. All of this has taken out the reverence and solemnity of the mass and has diminished and the understanding of it has completely changed. Cardinal Burke in a book recently said that a bad faith comes from a bad liturgy practice.

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  11. @AdversusHaereses "…not facing east…not on the tongue…."

    Unfortunately, I suspected you'd eventually say something like this.

    Now, I go to a Byzantine Rite parish where we face east, communion is distributed into the mouth only by the priest etc, so I definitely like all these things…

    However, I'm afraid the absence of these things do not constitute "liturgical abuses", they are just consequences of the Novus Ordo Mass.

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  12. @AdversusHaereses …but now we come to the meat of your point – your assertion of the disassociation with the Eucharist and Calvary. I really don't see how the things you complain about bring this about. Now, *bad catechesis* could easily lead to a disassociation between the two, but that can happen regardless of the form of the Mass. Cardinal Burke is right, but I would suggest that the formation of Catholics has an far greater influence in forming bad faith.

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  13. @AdversusHaereses Just like to circle back to your original point…

    In the face of children being raped, you complain that the priest doesn't face eastwards. When confronted with kids being abused, you object to the faithful not receiving communion directly on the tongue. When sickness and sin in some clergy rocks the faith of much of the laity and scandalizes the Church, you see the problems found in a *valid* form of the Mass *more* important?

    Don't you see something wrong with this?

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  14. @ThisRestlessPilgrim I am not saying that these are problems on the same level. Their nature is different. But one undermines the faith of individuals when a liturgical crisis undermines the entire sacred doctrine of the Church. Both are terrible atrocities.

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  15. @AdversusHaereses Now, two other things I would like to address:

    (1) You kept talking about "liturgical abuses" when you appear to really meant "Novus Ordo". This is a valid form of the Mass. It might not be to your taste. It might have lost some beautiful, ancient elements of the Mass, but please call it what it is, rather than "liturgical abuses". It's the kind of language I associate with sedevacantists…

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  16. @AdversusHaereses There is also the question why you bring up this topic at all

    Imagine a non-Catholic or a non-believer watches this video and then starts looking through the comments and finds Catholics saying that the sex scandal is is "nowhere near the liturgical crisis". How is that person going to perceive Catholics? Concerned with human welfare? Protection of the weak?

    Or will they perceive a religious huddle which gets upset because their priest doesn't say Mass the way they like it?

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  17. Restless pilgram, really? Many catholics are upset over liturical abuses because that's the heart and center of our beliefs. Now I will agree that we should show some sort of unity on the public front, however that is compromise that can't be made, I love father barron, he's brilliant and God bless him for his work.

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  18. @ThisRestlessPilgrim I believe they are two real issues, that are no where near the same level.
    The protection of the most vulnerable is of up most importance.

    I feel there is a counter revolution among young Catholics, studying and claiming what is rightfully theirs in teachings and traditions; which I know have been watered down in an attempt to meet them halfway, a way of thinking i might pressume would be "spirit of the council"

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  19. @ThisRestlessPilgrim The very core of what Adversus Haereses is trying to get at (although it hasn't been expressed very charitably) is that Our God who is infinite, who is Love itself should be worshipped and glorified at the very highest level possible; for it is the Just thing to do. There has been abuses in the form of animals in the sanctuary, dancing around and on the sanctuary, singing anti catholic hymns in the church, homosexualist agenda being preached in some churches the list goeson

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  20. @ThisRestlessPilgrim I agree with you on the grounds that, What in the world was he thinking?! linking the two issues together!
    sorry however for unloading my thoughts in a jumbled manner in the form of replies to you; it is rather unorthodox but you're on topic! so i'll leave you with this thought: we find ourselves in an age where clergymen unlike Fr Robert Barron STD are preaching in a manner …..

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  21. @ThisRestlessPilgrim where they would attempt to reach the congregation "halfway" (not in the form of a vessel like the new media but in teaching) and may even dismiss dogma to do so. Msgr Ronald Knox wrote a while back about the latitudinarian culture within the anglican churches and the weslyians and linking the reduction in dogma to the reduction of pew sitters and the squabbling among sects.

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  22. @ThisRestlessPilgrim "Is the stock (he asks in his commercial way) really a sound investment, when those who hold it are so anxious to unload it on any terms?" – Ronald Knox.

    Sadly I now find that in some churches here in Australia, I feel that, that is a liturgical abuse. Although again like my first post, there is a counter revolution in place and that is splendid. May God Bless you restless pilgrim, you have a Just heart.

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  23. @ThisRestlessPilgrim Oh and! the counter revolution is with the clergymen too. Cardinal Pell, and our Bishop Anthony Fisher OP have been doing wonders, working tirelessly for the mystical body of Christ. Happy Trinity Sunday

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  24. Amazing father.. a lot reflect on in what you said.. I await your videos with excitment from time to time.. Thank God for you!

    Bob
    Jerusalem, Holy Lands

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  25. Why do you keep refering to the Holy Spirit as an "it" when the Bible and the Creed both refer to the Holy Spirit as a "he"? This is disconcerting and disturbing to an orthodox Catholic for the Holy Spirit is a Divine Person not a mere force, an "it". Dear God, why are our priests so vague on points like this? Is this PC talk so as not to offend feminist ears?

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  26. @Hirduin God does not have physical gender, only grammatical gender. Father and Son are both grammatically masculine in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, English, and probably most of languages (not necessarily all, as there are grammatically masculine words for the naturally feminine word woman in Greek and Latin). Spirit may be masculine in Latin, but it is feminine in Hebrew and Neuter in Greek so the original new testament manuscripts use the neuter pronoun. This in no way implies a lack of person-hood.

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  27. You made little sense in this video. If God is perfect love, why is the Holy Spirit dangerous? If love isn't warm and soothing, why is it obliterating and destructive. Water drowns, fire consumes, wind annihilates. What the Holy Spirit sounds is vindictive and wrathful, not forgiving and healing. "Father forgive them for they not know what they do." Are Catholics so masochistic? If God is perfect love and Jesus is all-forgiving, what's up with the Holy Spirit? Catholicism sounds dysfunctional

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  28. @ShadowLink108 Ever hear of "tough love?" Love is willing the good of the other; and this sometimes means that, in Dostoevski's words, it is "harsh and dreadful." Or put it this way, God is always "yes," but sometimes "yes" is a "no" to a "no."

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  29. @ShadowLink108 Love is not warm and fuzzy, but dangerous, because true love will obliterate and destroy all that goes against love. That is God. Look at the language in the psalms, and in the prophets, to see how God devours up the enemy, the enemy of Love, which is sin.

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  30. @wordonfirevideo Touche. I understand that No to a No is required. After all, when a parent says no to a child and takes away scissors, that child will kick and scream, unknowingly aware of the dangers of scissors. But what does the Holy Spirit's destructive nature have to do will "harsh and dreadful." The parent doesn't strike a child to take away scissors? "Tough love," confirmed by Dr. William Pollack and Dr. Mary Pipher is bad and sometimes destructive parenting? Explain more, please?

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  31. @ShadowLink108 I'm not sure what is mean by sounding like an Evangelical. I have said nothing that any of the Church Fathers would disagree with, and certainly what has been in line with what the Church has always taught about God's love.

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  32. @MQ1611 Please look up the NT Greek for John 15:25 and 16:13. John deliberately violates Greek grammar by putting the masculine demonstrative pronoun “ekeinos” with the neuter definite article for spirit, which in Greek is “pneuma”. It is not therefore good form or usage to refer to the Holy Spirit as an “it” but it is a pandering to feminism or political correctness. Your last example is unfair, we often use it with nothing said about the gender: It is John Paul who bears witness.."

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  33. @MQ1611 My friend you are jumping to conclusions that I never did. I indicated that John deliberately inserted masculine pronouns with a neuter noun to demonstrate that the Holy Spirit was a person and not a force or an "it". The rules of grammar are only man made and not divine. God can do what he wants with what is His own and this He did when He inspired John to write the Greek the way He did. The AV 1611 is not the last word on the English scriptures as it has protestant biases in it.

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  34. @MQ1611 You're rather mean-spirited. I feel sorry for you but will no longer make comments to you or other mean people.

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  35. @ShadowLink108 I agree with you! This video seems like nonsense. Anything in the wrong proportions or used in the wrong way is destructive. Gods love is gentle. The fire of the holy spirit is a metaphor for the feeling of intense enthusiasm such as burning with desire. It is not unpleasant or dangerous in any way. Water in it's right form is the cradle of life, where life originated. Baptism of water is neither unpleasant or dangerous. Wind is a metaphor for God breathing life into the living.

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  36. @ShadowLink108 Fr Barrons views are not necessarily the views of the Catholic Church. He sees all the bad things in life as chastisement or purification then says that purification continues AD in purgatory. How much purification does he think we need. While I agree that a hard life moulds good people, I don't see my suffering as purification. Why did Jesus have to suffer, did he need bulk purification or was it to show us that he loved us and would willingly share our pain?

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  37. @wordonfirevideo This video seems contradictory to 'Fr. Barron comments on God, the Tsunami, and the Problem of Evil' which I loved and agreed with wholeheartedly. The God I know advises and guides me through life's trials. When something threatens to destroy me, he protects me. 'The yoke I give you is easy and my burden is light.' God is like a good parent, not like an abusive overly disciplinarian one.

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  38. @mhoowen You've never known a good parent who engages in "tough love"? God is never abusive, but he sometimes allows suffering for his own finally good purposes.

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  39. @wordonfirevideo On the Hell video you said that the door is locked on the inside. We suffer and are punished because of our own wrong choice. Why do the poor and innocent suffer more than many who are sinful? Fr. you suffer because God wants to do wonderful work through you, not because he needs to punish or purify you.

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  40. @mhoowen Yeah, but what if he can't do wonderful work through me unless and until I'm purified of my selfishness and sin? I don't think this is an either/or.

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  41. @wordonfirevideo You ARE doing good work. Am I to assume that you have been purified, you will not suffer any-more, you will not have to spend time in purgatory? Likewise I too am a sinner and yet I do Gods work. Do you feel that the omnipotent God cannot work through sinners? We are all sinners, so how does he work through us?

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  42. @mhoowen Hey man, I'm a sinner. I stand in need of constant purification. He works through us effectively when our purified wills and minds can cooparate with his grace.

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  43. @wordonfirevideo We are in a world of suffering people and we willingly suffer with them in order to do Gods great works. It is this witness of suffering of others and our desire an attempt to relieve it and do Gods great works that ultimately purifies us. God made us in his image, to be like him in Eternal life! By doing his good works we become more ready to face him on the last day. Of course we can't achieve purification ourselves, so we need Jesus to forgive our sins through his priests.

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  44. The Holy Spirit is very much more than the fire, the water or the wind. In fact, He is more than everything that has been created by God. Nature can be destructive because the universe is not perfect like Heaven; and God has already ordained it that we all die physically– through and with nature. So let us not complicate the course of nature; but we should always accept the WILL OF GOD for us to be holy and righteous obeying His Laws and Precepts, so that we will be ready in case we die.

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  45. Good idea! But perhaps we just have to 'mature', deepen' our understanding of those 'old words'. Concepts such as Love, Sacrifice, Glory, have to take on flesh, be experienced, in order to 'know the reality' signified by those words. "Man fully alive is God's Glory." We glorify, show forth, God's 'Wonder' as we grow, by 'Grace' to BE more! "Grace does not destroy our humanity, but makes it 'glow' with a certain 'Divine' brightness, not merely 'human' glory! [Can old words be reignited thusly?]

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  46. Thank you Fr Barron.  I listened to this before mass today and it helped me to understand the meaning of the Pentecost.  I always appreciate your videos as do many other Catholics in my church.  Please keep up the work of God! 

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  47. I have awakened the Holy Spirit inside of me, does this mean he is opening me up? Then is he cleansing me? I have also seen the dove of the Holy Spirit through meditation.

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  48. I agree with Father Barron about the Holy Spirit. The church may have some issues on the inside, but that is the Holy Spirit at its dangerous level in existence. It is showing itself in the Catholic Church! The Holy Spirit will first open up the pain, and then it will cleanse the entire Catholic Church. This will happen in the upcoming years. We will see religion at a new level of consciousness.

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  49. I agree with you, Fr.Barron. I believe that indeed the Church is being chastised and set back upon the right path, back to her roots where her focus ought to be. Who but God can set the Church back on track if she does go off-course? And perhaps, in our enemies rising up against us, we can be in a position to better engage and overtake and win some of them over that could not be any other way. When people see the rotten fruits of evil mature, they may perhaps only then see the folly of their ways. Sometimes we must be reminded that what God wants of us is what is best of us and that He commands what He does for a reason. This may be one way, by getting people to move so they can feel their wounds and know what sin has done to them and society. Of course I do not know for certain, but I think it may be possible. Sometimes treating an infection involves going through pain, but it is always worth it in the end.

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  50. if you REALLY love God and want to follow Jesus, burn that collar and run from the catholic church.
    don't walk at a brisk pace, don't jog…RUN!!!

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  51. You are annointed Bishop! In my experience I believe it is to gain compassion for others to not be attacked by the devil God has made me submit to my enemies because He wants me to love others who are victims of the devil as I have been but didnt understand how to fight the battle. I have more understanding now and hope I can tell you my perspective!

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  52. Always so articulate! And for a while he was my bishop in the Santa Barbara region of the Diocese of Los Angeles.

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  53. Day 1 – The Pentecost Novena

     O Come Holy Spirit, Living In Mary. JN 14:26

    “I will carry out a revolution by renewal in the Holy Spirit.”
    “I will speak one language and wear one uniform: charity.”
    “I will have one very special love: the Blessed Virgin Mary.”

    😇 Bl Cardinal Van Thuan Please Pray 4us
    Jn 16:20-23

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  54. What is the origin of the Roman Catholic Church?

    The Roman Catholic Church contends that its origin is the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ in approximately AD 30. The Catholic Church proclaims itself to be the church that Jesus Christ died for, the church that was established and built by the apostles. Is that the true origin of the Catholic Church? On the contrary. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. So, if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church?

    For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, in AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith, but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine promoted was a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism.

    Constantine found that, with the Roman Empire being so vast, expansive, and diverse, not everyone would agree to forsake his or her religious beliefs to embrace Christianity. So, Constantine allowed, and even promoted, the “Christianization” of pagan beliefs. Completely pagan and utterly unbiblical beliefs were given new “Christian” identities. Some clear examples of this are as follows:

    (1) The Cult of Isis, an Egyptian mother-goddess religion, was absorbed into Christianity by replacing Isis with Mary. Many of the titles that were used for Isis, such as “Queen of Heaven,” “Mother of God,” and theotokos (“God-bearer”) were attached to Mary. Mary was given an exalted role in the Christian faith, far beyond what the Bible ascribes to her, in order to attract Isis worshippers to a faith they would not otherwise embrace. Many temples to Isis were, in fact, converted into temples dedicated to Mary. The first clear hints of Catholic Mariology occur in the writings of Origen, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt, which happened to be the focal point of Isis worship.

    (2) Mithraism was a religion in the Roman Empire in the 1st through 5th centuries AD. It was very popular among the Romans, especially among Roman soldiers, and was possibly the religion of several Roman emperors. While Mithraism was never given “official” status in the Roman Empire, it was the de facto official religion until Constantine and succeeding Roman emperors replaced Mithraism with Christianity. One of the key features of Mithraism was a sacrificial meal, which involved eating the flesh and drinking the blood of a bull. Mithras, the god of Mithraism, was “present” in the flesh and blood of the bull, and when consumed, granted salvation to those who partook of the sacrificial meal (this is known as theophagy, the eating of one’s god). Mithraism also had seven “sacraments,” making the similarities between Mithraism and Roman Catholicism too many to ignore. Church leaders after Constantine found an easy substitute for the sacrificial meal of Mithraism in the concept of the Lord’s Supper/Christian communion. Even before Constantine, some early Christians had begun to attach mysticism to the Lord’s Supper, rejecting the biblical concept of a simple and worshipful remembrance of Christ’s death and shed blood. The Romanization of the Lord’s Supper made the transition to a sacrificial consumption of Jesus Christ, now known as the Catholic Mass/Eucharist, complete.

    (3) Most Roman emperors (and citizens) were henotheists. A henotheist is one who believes in the existence of many gods, but focuses primarily on one particular god or considers one particular god supreme over the other gods. For example, the Roman god Jupiter was supreme over the Roman pantheon of gods. Roman sailors were often worshippers of Neptune, the god of the oceans. When the Catholic Church absorbed Roman paganism, it simply replaced the pantheon of gods with the saints. Just as the Roman pantheon of gods had a god of love, a god of peace, a god of war, a god of strength, a god of wisdom, etc., so the Catholic Church has a saint who is “in charge” over each of these, and many other categories. Just as many Roman cities had a god specific to the city, so the Catholic Church provided “patron saints” for the cities.

    (4) The supremacy of the Roman bishop (the papacy) was created with the support of the Roman emperors. With the city of Rome being the center of government for the Roman Empire, and with the Roman emperors living in Rome, the city of Rome rose to prominence in all facets of life. Constantine (AD 272–337) and his successors gave their support to the bishop of Rome as the supreme ruler of the church. Of course, it is best for the unity of the Roman Empire that the government and state religion be centralized. While most other bishops (and Christians) resisted the idea of the Roman bishop being supreme, the Roman bishop eventually rose to supremacy, due to the power and influence of the Roman emperors. When the Western half of the Roman Empire collapsed in 476, the popes took on the title that had previously belonged to the Roman emperors—Pontifex Maximus. Pope Gregory I, ruling from 590–604, is usually considered the first bishop to truly wield papal authority.

    Many more examples could be given. These four should suffice in demonstrating the origin of the Catholic Church. Of course, the Roman Catholic Church denies the pagan origin of its beliefs and practices. The Catholic Church disguises its pagan beliefs under layers of complicated theology and “church tradition.” Recognizing that many of its beliefs and practices are utterly foreign to Scripture, the Catholic Church is forced to deny the authority and sufficiency of Scripture.

    The origin of the Catholic Church is the tragic compromise of Christianity with the pagan religions that surrounded it. Instead of proclaiming the gospel and converting the pagans, the Catholic Church “Christianized” the pagan religions, and “paganized” Christianity. By blurring the differences and erasing the distinctions, yes, the Catholic Church made itself attractive to the people of the Roman Empire. One result was the Catholic Church becoming the supreme religion in the Roman world for centuries. However, another result was the most dominant form of Christianity apostatizing from the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the true proclamation of God’s Word.

    Second Timothy 4:3–4 declares, “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”

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  55. Im a Christian sympathiser but on a point of logic you say that the holy spirit is cleansing the church; however you don't need to invoke any contingency other than the pedophile scandal.

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  56. Personally I believe the Holy Spirit is one of the most complex concept in existence well beyond the understanding of man. I have spent time trying to understand the father, son and the Holy spirit but I can't solve the last puzzle. It is quite absolute in nature pretty much incompatible with our concept of reality till we fully understand that reality first. I could be seriously wrong though.

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  57. The "spirit of love" inhabits the church. "count" Dracula aka. Satan's church is called "corporations" where the counting corpses gather to worship ignorance (greed).

    And love isn't always a puppy dog licking US in the face in an ocean of wildflowers.

    Sometimes love is a ferocious mama grizzly bear protecting her cubs.

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